Would you buy a reg and computer online?

[RonFrank]

The funniest thing about all these people who continue to mock the LDS and really demand that they keep up with the big internet sites is that you guys don't truly realize how much cheaper it is to run a internet business. Your over head cost is so much cheaper and with that they can come down in their prices from the msrp to attract all you bargin basement shoppers who want the best but shy away from paying for it.

LeisurePro runs their shop (and it is Local) out of New York City. ScubaToys is based out of Texas. Most of these big internet sites run very big retail locations as well.

Based on my experience the LDS does NOT want to compete. Ours has told me so flat out. They prefer to overcharge new divers who don't really realize they have options. They are often in an OW class, and gear is required NOW, so they overpay at the LDS.

This is a perfectly reasonable model, but not one that helps me out when purchasing gear. No problem, I just buy used, or new from any number of reliable retailers, and I do spread my money around. The LDS gets my training bucks, but I have not taken a class in a couple of years.

 

[Twistedarts]

and being that LP is is NYC, their rent is beyond that of the average lds, so what is their excuse? I'm sick to death of the mentality that it is ok to rip off people new to the sport. I witnessed it when I took my academics, however I purchased all my gear beforehand. sc@#w them!

as an aside, I would not even get fills from them. instead I will drive an hour to a shop that is willing to work with divers as opposed to robbing them blind! $285 for fins, gimme a break!

 

[BlueFrog]

I think you need to know that when you talk discounting price you need to know who to be mad at and its not the LDS or online retailer. Blame the manufacturers, Aqualung and ScubaPro primarily who are playing price games. They don't allow the LDS to discount more than 10% and if the LDS discounts more than 10% they lose their AL/SP dealership as they enforce the MAP price policy. Ask to see the purchase agreement your LDS signed to get the equipment line if you don't believe me. Don't be mad at LDS, they're screwed no matter what they do. They match online prices for you and maybe lose their equipment line or offer you 10% discount and watch you walk out, buy the reg online and make a post on Scubaboard about how your LDS won't match prices.

Its ok if you want the cheapest price, we all do but don't blame a LDS for something they can't control or LP for being capable of buying overseas. The big online stores will put the LDS out of business, that's a fact! Mom and Pop scuba stores can't buy in bulk or overseas to compete with the Leisurepros of this world when they don't have the same restrictions. You can decide if its a good thing or bad but you should know why your LDS closes its doors. For the record, yes, if price is the only factor, online grey market will always be cheaper and that's ok for some divers myself included but be know who the bad guy is in this deal.

 

[Twistedarts]

I think you need to know that when you talk discounting price you need to know who to be mad at and its not the LDS or online retailer. Blame the manufacturers, Aqualung and ScubaPro primarily who are playing price games. They don't allow the LDS to discount more than 10% and if the LDS discounts more than 10% they lose their AL/SP dealership as they enforce the MAP price policy. Ask to see the purchase agreement your LDS signed to get the equipment line if you don't believe me. Don't be mad at LDS, they're screwed no matter what they do. They match online prices for you and maybe lose their equipment line or offer you 10% discount and watch you walk out, buy the reg online and make a post on Scubaboard about how your LDS won't match prices.

Its ok if you want the cheapest price, we all do but don't blame a LDS for something they can't control or LP for being capable of buying overseas. The big online stores will put the LDS out of business, that's a fact! Mom and Pop scuba stores can't buy in bulk or overseas to compete with the Leisurepros of this world when they don't have the same restrictions. You can decide if its a good thing or bad but you should know why your LDS closes its doors. For the record, yes, if price is the only factor, online grey market will always be cheaper and that's ok for some divers myself included but be know who the bad guy is in this deal.

What I'm referring to are the "scare tactics" and misinformation that some shops pull especially on those new to the sport. Shady business practices are not the fault of the manufacturer. However if sp and al are pulling those kinds of bs the lds, yet another reason i do not dive those brands. as evidenced by some posters here, there are some shops that are willing to do business in the 21st century and for that I applaud them and give them my biz.

Sorry for the rant.

 

[redacted]

I think you need to know that when you talk discounting price you need to know who to be mad at and its not the LDS or online retailer. Blame the manufacturers, Aqualung and ScubaPro primarily who are playing price games. They don't allow the LDS to discount more than 10% and if the LDS discounts more than 10% they lose their AL/SP dealership as they enforce the MAP price policy. Ask to see the purchase agreement your LDS signed to get the equipment line if you don't believe me. Don't be mad at LDS, they're screwed no matter what they do. They match online prices for you and maybe lose their equipment line or offer you 10% discount and watch you walk out, buy the reg online and make a post on Scubaboard about how your LDS won't match prices.

Its ok if you want the cheapest price, we all do but don't blame a LDS for something they can't control or LP for being capable of buying overseas. The big online stores will put the LDS out of business, that's a fact! Mom and Pop scuba stores can't buy in bulk or overseas to compete with the Leisurepros of this world when they don't have the same restrictions. You can decide if its a good thing or bad but you should know why your LDS closes its doors. For the record, yes, if price is the only factor, online grey market will always be cheaper and that's ok for some divers myself included but be know who the bad guy is in this deal.

I disagree. The LDS that CHOOSES to sell (even pushes as its main line) products from price controlling mfgrs and then hides behind those dealer agreements and refuses to compete is the real problem. When those dealers go away, so will the manufacturer's anti-competitive policies. There are plenty of other manufactures with more reasonable policies that would be happy to replace the Scubapro and Aqualung products in these "screwed" LDSs.

 

[fireflock]

The funniest thing about all these people who continue to mock the LDS and really demand that they keep up with the big internet sites is that you guys don't truly realize how much cheaper it is to run a internet business. Your over head cost is so much cheaper and with that they can come down in their prices from the msrp to attract all you bargin basement shoppers who want the best but shy away from paying for it.

No kidding! I can't imagine how much lower your overhead would be with a place like this where all you need to do is ship stuff out the back door

I bet 95% of scuba gear sold via the internet is still governed by manufacturer price restrictions. Now the restriction is called MAP instead of MSRP, but it's the same game.

Rich

 

[cave_diver]

I would have no problem buying online as long as I know the product, get a valid warranty, and know that I have a place to get the gear serviced.

If I need to research something I don’t know, or if I need training using it - that’s a different story.

 

[Richard Paul Halstead]

I would like to say that I have just gotten into scuba diving with my family and I have nine kids. I bought all of my gear at e-bay. When I tried to get some tanks filled (Just had them all Hydro'ed) the LDS, which isn't local but is the closest, wanted to do a VIS on them and wanted to charge me for that. After having the company that hyrdo'ed them call the LDS and tell him that they did the VIS he filled them. Guess what, that was the last time I dealt with him and I got my own compressor, end of rip off. By the way my family and I all had our own gear before we took our OW class. Also I feel that you are better of servicing your own gear, at least you know what has been done. Where are all of the deaths from people who do? Don't be sheep and buy into the BS being sold to everyone by the Manufacturers and LDS. If you aren't good at fixing thing then go ahead and get ripped off. Or try it and learn how. Buy a cheap reg on e-bay and try it then try again until you get it right. There isn't over .70 in parts to do your own and if you buy them from the o-ring manufactures and if you have a machine shop to make your own seats. You can get annual kits on e-bay as well. I have learned a lot in the past 8 month about scuba gear and would like to thank the people here on the SB site for saving me thousands. After reading all of the posts that I could find then I was wise to the scams. By the way there are a lot of people here that will help you with what ever you want. Just my thoughts.

 

[Scott M]

Wow how times have changed. I remember when I first joined SB, I sang the praises of buying on-line and spent the majority of my posts defending that position over and over again. Slowly people started buying online (not because of me but because they were sick of over paying and having to put up with bad attitudes and pushy LDS's). At the time if you so much as whispered on line in an LDS it was as if the world stopped. We had terrible shops in the area at the time. I remember going into a shop with a list of gear I was buying that totaled almost 10G's retail and asking for just 10% off which was a lot more than I ended up paying on line. They all but threw me out of the store. I ordered my gear from LP that evening. Today that same shop treats customers a lot different than they did back then. We now have a very good shop in town and I have found a guy that runs a small shop that for the most part services a few dive buddies of mine and me. I buy a lot of my stuff off him now and he gives me a great deal. He will not let me pay him extra for anything and his work on regs is just fantastic. He treats my gear as if it was his own. So for me I do not buy that much on line anymore unless it is a product he just can not get. His compressor setup is new and his fills are cheap, not to mention the best air I ever breathed. If I had to say what was the biggest effect on line sales companys have had, it is that they have made the good LDS's better and put the bad ones out of business. So to answer the OP's question, yes I have bought off online companys and still do but not quite as much. My recommendations are Scubatoys, LP, scuba.com and of course a great online place to deal with diverightinscuba.com

Regards

 

[Isaac-1]

I feel the scuba industry is facing a crisis, I was in an LDS in a nearby city (population 150,000 or so about 100 miles from here), last weekend there are probably 5-6 shops that are closer (20 years ago it would have been more like 10-12), I was "in town" on other business so I dropped in to do some shopping. I was looking for some assorted gear where fit matters (gloves, booties, etc. so did not want to buy online), this shop turned out to be a small shop in a strip mall, it looked reasonably nice inside featuring sets of gear displayed on the walls, enough to outfit a handfull of divers, but certainly not what I would call a large selection, I sensed a certain, what you see is what we have impression. This place seemed to have "fair" pricing, something above online pricing, but below MSRP on the accessories I checked, however I don't see how the place could possibly make a profit as I suspect a person could buy out their entire inventory with $10,000 or so. The sad thing is that same city had 3 other dive shops just 5 years ago, and the story is similar in every other mid size city I know in the region. If these LDS continue to die off, where will new divers seak training, and local area contacts?