Would this be unethical?

[mempilot]

Since this thread will turn into a carbon copy of his last post, I'll refrain from putting my .02 in about him not being ready for these dives yet whether there is an ethics point about the data or not.

Oops, I just let out .01 worth. Oh well, that's about all it's worth anyway.

 

[SeaHound]

is this related to one of your prev threads about diving on a wreck at tremendous depths with VERY limited (next to no) experience?!

My concern would be if this instructor were mad enough to help you in anyway with such an endeavour!

No this is not related to that 200 ft deep "baby" of mine. This guy doesnt know about it.

 

[SeaHound]

seahound, what agreement did you have with this instructor? what was your
"deal" with him? what did you offer him in exchange for the information?

There was no deal with him other than what he offers to his regular students. I asked him for a list of wrecks in the region. At that time I was looking for that BABY of mine which is lying at 200 feet. He gave me a list of 8 wrecks but the one that I was looking for was not in it. Still, some of the wrecks in that list were interesting and I thought local tv channels would be interested in them. So there is no "deal" with him either verbally or in writing, its just that he has been very cooperative in providing info so thats why I feel odd taking that info and approaching some other guy.

 

[SeaHound]

Hi Seahound!
Your profile says that you are a film/doc. producer. I do a little bit of that myself. I'm sure that you have access to legal advice as to copyright issues, and knowledge from prior works you've done. My wife is my assistant, and she spends several hours per week tracking and paying out royalties, or acquiring rights to various works.
As I'm sure you know, information and ideas cannot be copy written. You cannot copyright knowledge of wreck locations. You can write a book about it, and copyright the book, but not the information in it. But ALWAYS seek legal advise from a professional.
OTOH, this guys financial integrity may be in question, but the integrity of your word may be viewed as well.
Never enter into any form of agreement without putting it in writing.
Just my 1 cent.

You are aboslutely right on the copyright issue Rick. Thats why I did not ask whether it would be ILLEGAL! I asked whether it would be UNETHICAL because what is legal and what is ethical are two totally different things.

 

[RichLockyer]

If you would feel guilty about cutting the guy out, and the locations are common knowledge, then before doing anything, go ahead and do the independent research that you could have done without him. At that point, you can cite the other sources in your bibliography/credits.

 

[SeaHound]

Seahound,
We still have the issue of you being newly certified. That means you have practically zero experience and your basic open water does not certify, or prepare you for dives to deep depths and the type of diving the filming will require. Your BOW is really just a license to learn. IMHO you should not even attempt this film project of wrecks lying in waters over 60 (and many of them over 130) feet until you have at least 100 dives or more under your weight belt, and Advance Open Water training too. In fact you defiantly should be technically trained as well to do this project. I will wager that to get this project done will require DECO diving, for which recreational SCUBA instruction does not prepare you. That is of course IMHO. But what the heck, it is literally your funeral.

Thanks for the concern Pasley. These are shallow water wrecks that I came across while hunting for that one resting at 200 feet. I have been diving around them. They are so shallow that on a low tide you can see one mast sticking out of water. There is nothing here that is below 60 ft.

 

[ekarais]

If you don't have any written agreement you are free to choose your way. If you've promised verbally something or if you feel you owe him, than all you have to do is to pay him an amount of money you'll feel confortable for his contribution as soon as you make money out of this work. But don't promise him for money either. This is your idea and your efforts.

 

[SeaHound]

did you verify that what you,ve heard is true?If he,s not trustworthy,how come that he,s not very well known(as you mentioned above) In a community things like that usually go around like a bushfire and he would be known.It,s your call mate,you owe him nothing and you can choose anyone you favour.By the way,how was his instruction towards you and did he cheat you as well?peace! :06:

When I was training with him, there were "hidden charges" in everything. He made profit on boat rentals. The deal was that students will split the boat rent. We found out that he had charged us more than what he had paid to the boat operators. Plus some other "hidden" charges that were not mentioned when we signed up for the course.

Two of the students in my batch were seriously pissed off at him. Its easy to see that he goes on making more enemies than freinds.

Plus there are villages along the coast from which some great diving sites are accessible. These villagers dont want him on their turf. They are freindly towards other divers but not him. His entry in their villages is BANNED! What he has done to them remains unknown.

So shady character.

 

[Manogr]

It looks like Seahound decided to follow our advise and start conservatily his career in diving!

I hope that he will continue a slow training program with many many dives !

Manogr

 

[SeaHound]

The fact, that circumstances at the moment prevent me from doing a 200 ft dive, are not going to stop me from doing the 60 ft dives that I can do.

As for that 200 ft dive, I did not want to stir another debate but the good news is that I have finally found a diving school that teaches that stuff. Advanced decompression and yada yada yada ... I can not afford their schooling on my own so I am putting that cost in the budget of my documentary. Since I am in the ONLY guy in the world who knows where this baby is so the television executives sitting in programme committee will have no choice but to pay for my training. If not then the wreck will lie there and ROTTT .....