OP
H2Andy
Contributor
dweeb:
egads... the same Plato who wrote that women had no souls and that non-greeks
were born natural slaves?
perhaps you should read some philosophy that is not 2500 yearrs old?
Would Government Regulation of Diving Be So Bad?
- Thread starter H2Andy
- Start date
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egads... the same Plato who wrote that women had no souls and that non-greeks
were born natural slaves?
perhaps you should read some philosophy that is not 2500 yearrs old?
bwerb
Hoser/English Translator, eh
I'd rather just have the LDS's not in the business of granting certifications. Take it one step outside. LDS does the training. Agency performs the testing. In this way LDS's would be more concerned with ensuring that they trained divers to pass the certification exams and not so concerned that if they don't pass the diver...they won't sign-up for AOW next week and Rescue the week after.
The government has just done so much good when it jumps into something it knows nothing about...long live the bureacrats!
The government has just done so much good when it jumps into something it knows nothing about...long live the bureacrats!
amport
Registered
Thomas Jefferson said it best. "Government governs best that governs least.
I agree with this, and although it's already that way, at least with the IE, I believe it should be that way for all certifications. If that doesn't work........................bwerb:
H2Andy:
So I should trade in my Sun Tsu for Gadaffi's green book?
What are you trying to say Andy, that Im old fashioned?
.
Windwalker
Contributor
Damn this is a long thread.. I am about to make it longer.
Soo, the question is, Due to the raising mortality rate of divers, should the government take notice and regulate.
H2Andy, I don't know where you are getting your numbers, are they globally or just in the USA. I think the question needs to be asked, what were the causes of the accidents? Were they left 100miles out by their dive boat, did they get eaten by Tribbles. What is the Nature of the Accident? If the percentage of accidents increase based on poor judgment of instructors and students, is it endemic of a particular school? Are there problem areas? Do cold water students have more problems then warm water students? Is the problem with divers who have not dived in 10 years, hopping back into the water and drowning?
It is my understanding, based off some DAN statistics that I would have to dig up (but am too lazy to do right now) that most accidents happen with divers that have less the 15-20 dives, and result on or near the surface (Failure to drop weight belt, or failure to inflate BC) Since this is a problem with knowledge retention, how would Government regulation even remotely assist in mitigating this factor. I am aware of three fatalities regarding Heart attacks caused by the stress of diving. They are considered Diving accidents, even though they were not related to skill of the diver.
The next area of thought is in the training agencies themselves. Many people on the board mention that the government can be lobbied to lower standards, but I assert that Training Agencies can be influenced through similar actions. Not by lobbying but by boycotting.
For example, say SSI Finds out an instructor that worked for a Resort in... (say) Cozumel was mixing Alcohol with diving. So they suspend the license of the instructor pending investigation. This angers the Resort Management and the Resort starts discriminating against SSI Divers. The rejected SSI Divers complain to SSI and tell other people who seek certification that SSI is not accepted everywhere. This puts stress on SSI to make everyone happy, so SSI buckles and re-instates the instructor fearing massive loss of profit/faith in the agency. (The internet is a powerful thing for bad press, so is word of mouth.)
What is to prevent the instructor from using his SSI credentials to become a PADI instructor. How hard is it for him to go to a buddy who works at another resort who can certify instructors to just get him to sign off on the paper work? Boom.. Now its PADI's problem. Meanwhile, the instructor is still teaching and endangering other students.
It is this LAST statement that would make some sort of Government Regulation somewhat reasonable. However Cozumel is not in the United States and thus would have no effect on the said instructor! This is where self policing agencies make sense. If SSI Told PADI, and Naui, and YMCA that they were suspending X instructor for X reason, then hopefully Y agency would not give license while Z agency is conducting an investigation. Is this the way it currently works? I hope so.
This would make Self Regulating Business make a Heck of a lot more sense, because they are not bound by Governmental Treatese or red tape.
SO to answer the question. Andy, I dont think the information you gave was too valid, More detailed information as to type of accidents, and reason for the accident would have been more useful. Even so, the information would just be more effective being presented to the certifying agencies by the members of the board saying.. Hey! Lets fix this!
Then starting a Government certification process.
As for National Security, I believe at Edmonds, near Seattle Washington, if you stray to close to the Ferry, then they can bust ya. After all you might be selling ferry prop information to the Chinese!
Soo, the question is, Due to the raising mortality rate of divers, should the government take notice and regulate.
H2Andy, I don't know where you are getting your numbers, are they globally or just in the USA. I think the question needs to be asked, what were the causes of the accidents? Were they left 100miles out by their dive boat, did they get eaten by Tribbles. What is the Nature of the Accident? If the percentage of accidents increase based on poor judgment of instructors and students, is it endemic of a particular school? Are there problem areas? Do cold water students have more problems then warm water students? Is the problem with divers who have not dived in 10 years, hopping back into the water and drowning?
It is my understanding, based off some DAN statistics that I would have to dig up (but am too lazy to do right now) that most accidents happen with divers that have less the 15-20 dives, and result on or near the surface (Failure to drop weight belt, or failure to inflate BC) Since this is a problem with knowledge retention, how would Government regulation even remotely assist in mitigating this factor. I am aware of three fatalities regarding Heart attacks caused by the stress of diving. They are considered Diving accidents, even though they were not related to skill of the diver.
The next area of thought is in the training agencies themselves. Many people on the board mention that the government can be lobbied to lower standards, but I assert that Training Agencies can be influenced through similar actions. Not by lobbying but by boycotting.
For example, say SSI Finds out an instructor that worked for a Resort in... (say) Cozumel was mixing Alcohol with diving. So they suspend the license of the instructor pending investigation. This angers the Resort Management and the Resort starts discriminating against SSI Divers. The rejected SSI Divers complain to SSI and tell other people who seek certification that SSI is not accepted everywhere. This puts stress on SSI to make everyone happy, so SSI buckles and re-instates the instructor fearing massive loss of profit/faith in the agency. (The internet is a powerful thing for bad press, so is word of mouth.)
What is to prevent the instructor from using his SSI credentials to become a PADI instructor. How hard is it for him to go to a buddy who works at another resort who can certify instructors to just get him to sign off on the paper work? Boom.. Now its PADI's problem. Meanwhile, the instructor is still teaching and endangering other students.
It is this LAST statement that would make some sort of Government Regulation somewhat reasonable. However Cozumel is not in the United States and thus would have no effect on the said instructor! This is where self policing agencies make sense. If SSI Told PADI, and Naui, and YMCA that they were suspending X instructor for X reason, then hopefully Y agency would not give license while Z agency is conducting an investigation. Is this the way it currently works? I hope so.
This would make Self Regulating Business make a Heck of a lot more sense, because they are not bound by Governmental Treatese or red tape.
SO to answer the question. Andy, I dont think the information you gave was too valid, More detailed information as to type of accidents, and reason for the accident would have been more useful. Even so, the information would just be more effective being presented to the certifying agencies by the members of the board saying.. Hey! Lets fix this!
Then starting a Government certification process.
As for National Security, I believe at Edmonds, near Seattle Washington, if you stray to close to the Ferry, then they can bust ya. After all you might be selling ferry prop information to the Chinese!
OP
H2Andy
Contributor
Windwalker:
not quite.
the question was, would government regulation of diving be
so bad, seeing as how many people on this board seem to
think the agencies have botched the job of training divers
and instructors.
the rising body count was a hypothetical that came about
later (ASSUMING a rising body count, govt. intervention
may still not be the best thing).
i have no figures on diver mortality, so i gave none.
btw, the only person who correctly identified the reason for
my question was brianwl. most people assumed i was pro-government intervention.
now... what do we know about the word a$$ume?
Thats an interesting thread...
If you think that any government is immune to commercial pressure you are sadly misinformed. Halliburton is one example of a government gone completely mad where commercial contracts were at stake and all they did was line their pockets.
If you want something to work well then keep it away from all government agencies.
Coogeeman :dazzler1:
If you think that any government is immune to commercial pressure you are sadly misinformed. Halliburton is one example of a government gone completely mad where commercial contracts were at stake and all they did was line their pockets.
If you want something to work well then keep it away from all government agencies.
Coogeeman :dazzler1:
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