Would Government Regulation of Diving Be So Bad?

[H2Andy]

I can't help wondering though, which non-diving politician would set the standards? You don't really believe an experienced diver would be involved in making diving decisions, do you?

But there are standards for doctors, nurses, and laywers
in place. Gubmen managed to get those in place. What's
so different about diving?

I would expect that a state would draw on NOAA (quite a lot of experience with diving), the US Navy, and the various certifying agencies who will be affected. All in all, the problem is likely
to bee too many experienced divers chiming in rather than
not enough.

My second question is, how much would it cost to be trained by these instructors that are licensed and who would be willing to pay it?

Third, how much would it cost the instructors to become "certified" by whatever agency is resposible for regulating them?

yes... certainly the cost of training will go up, as those costs
will inevitably be trickled down to the consumer. however,
you would be paying for "better trained" instructors and,
as it is, training costs are ridiculously low, so...

definetely a concern, but i doubt it would put diving out of
the range of people who today seek dive training.

Finally, would the instructors be protected by the government from legal action like the medical insurance companies are?

why would the insurance scheme in place today need to
be changed? instructors will be certified by a specific
agency, and then be licensed by the state. only then
can they teach. nothing else changes.

basically, the insurance that the agencies require should
cover the legal actions against instructors.

 

[jbd]

first, thank you to everyone who has participated and shared your views without
feeling the need to make personal attacks on anyone else.

i actually like the distinction some people are making between divers and instructors.

after all, instructors are responsible for teaching people how to survive on life-support,
which could, if taught improperly, lead to the death or injury of the students.

so... states regulate professionals (doctors, lawyers, nurses) all the time... why
not have state regulation of instructors, as some have suggested?

what would be wrong with requiring instructors to meet basic requirements
and be licensed accordingly, with on-going professional education requirements?

at the very least, wouldn't that provide a higher bar than we have right now for
instructors?

Even with the the regulations on the professions you mentioned(and I was one of those) I can tell that it simply does not stop some really stupid crap from happening. The same is true of everything human beings endeavor to do.

As a scuba instructor I don't need the government to set any basic requirements. That has been done by the agency I am affiliated with. It is my job to meet or exceed those minimum standards. Scuba diving is not the high risk, crap shoot(regarding living or dying) adventure that it has been made out to be. If it was truly that risky, the dead would be all over the place and the agency's would have been sued into oblivion. With relatively rudimentary training most recreational diving will result in the diver returning to dry land unharmed.

 

[eponym]

On the flip side, I could see the federal gov't setting a frame work and asking the states to fill in the gaps and regulate the activity.

Dateline Washington, DC 2007.04.01

The Acting-Director-Designate-Pro-Tem of the newly re-reorganized Department of People Using Machinery announced today that the release of new standards for SCUBA diving have been delayed once again. No explanation was forthcoming from the DoPUM ADDPT's office. SCUBA is an acronym for Scuba Conducted Under Bureaucracy's Aegis.

Several sources have spoken off the record, however, and have revealed that controversy continues to swirl around fundamental principles. In a move reminiscent of Texas's control over K-12 schoolbook content for that industry nationwide, unnamed regulators are seeking to block inclusion of content suggestions from California. These guidelines allow instructors to tell OW students that some believe death during SCUBA is followed by reincarnation as a surfer or other quasi-deity.

And now back to our regularly scheduled advertising.

PS Thanks, h2andy, for a good thinking point--everything I would have said was said early, so I offer satire instead. And thanks for the laughs-out-loud to . . . heck, you know who you are.

 

[Rick Murchison]

after all, instructors are responsible for teaching people how to survive on life-support,
which could, if taught improperly, lead to the death or injury of the students.

so... states regulate professionals (doctors, lawyers, nurses) all the time... why
not have state regulation of instructors, as some have suggested?

Doctors and nurses fall into the "required professional" category - they deal with non-optional (on the part of the patient) problems that have life or death consequences. There is a distinct difference in that situation and the totally optional, all about fun and recreation, diving situation. There just isn't any overriding public safety requirement for the (expeletive deleted) government to stick their (expeltive deleted) nose into the scuba business. The scuba business's safety record is phenomenal as it is. It doesn't need the (expletive deleted) government's (expletive deleted) "help."
Why do you feel this need to have some pointy-headed ignorant bureaucratic government functionary dictating policy for the Scuba industry?

what would be wrong with requiring instructors to meet basic requirements

Instructors already must meet basic requirements.

and be licensed accordingly, with on-going professional education requirements?

Because you shouldn't have to have the government's permission to teach someone something they want to learn as a recreational activity. If you were teaching commercial divers that would be (and is) a different matter. Next thing you know, you'll be demanding licensing and continuing education for recreational mountain climbing instructors.

at the very least, wouldn't that provide a higher bar than we have right now for instructors?

No way. What it would provide is the typical "form before function" morrass and petty BS always part & parcel to every government program. We need to restrict them (government) to essentials and keep 'em OUT of our lives to the maximum extent possible.
Rick

 

[H2Andy]

Why do you feel this need to have some pointy-headed ignorant bureaucratic government functionary dictating policy for the Scuba industry?

i assume you mean "why would there be a need for
gubmen to dictate policy for Scuba industry," since i have
stated a few times that i don't personally feel this way...

anyways... i have heard many, many, many complaints on
this board as to how badly training is going, how inexperienced
instructors are coming this --> <--- close to killing students,
how lax the standards are, how little is being taught.

would you consider the current state of dive training a success?

if no, then, since the agencies haven't been able to sort it
out themselves, someone else ought to, perhaps?

if so, then who?

that is basically my train of thought.

 

[HammerNoMore]

if so, then who?

I propose....me! I hereby declare myself a scuba dictator. You will dive and train my way, or I will insult you a second time!



James

 

[H2Andy]

well, then at least make me assistant sub-minister to the under-secretary of training (catering division)

 

[jbd]

i assume you mean "why would there be a need for
gubmen to dictate policy for Scuba industry," since i have
stated a few times that i don't personally feel this way...

anyways... i have heard many, many, many complaints on
this board as to how badly training is going, how inexperienced
instructors are coming this --> <--- close to killing students,
how lax the standards are, how little is being taught.

would you consider the current state of dive training a success?

if no, then, since the agencies haven't been able to sort it
out themselves, someone else ought to, perhaps?

if so, then who?

that is basically my train of thought.

While there are many who feel training standards have declined things have not deteriorated to the point that scuba diving will get you killed straight away. What you hear on this board and possibly some others is that people are concerned and raising those concerns now before we reach some critical mass point which triggers governmental interference.

Using hypothetical numbers--if the risk of injury or death during a scuba dive is 1% of total dives per year and it goes up to 1.2% does that require the government to step in? IMHO no. Does that mean we within the industry need to look into the increase and take corrective action? IMHO yes.

 

[Rick Murchison]

anyways... i have heard many, many, many complaints on this board as to how badly training is going, how inexperienced instructors are coming this --> <--- close to killing students, how lax the standards are, how little is being taught.

Yes, you have. And there's certainly room for improvement.

would you consider the current state of dive training a success?

How do you want to measure success? Are we being successful in training to a level that avoids a rising fatality rate? Well, even with all the bumps and warts, yes. Do I personally consider the "current state of dive training" to be what is should be??? No.

if no, then, since the agencies haven't been able to sort it out themselves, someone else ought to, perhaps?

No, the agencies should. You should. I should.
I say again, keep the government OUT.
Rick

 

[Quarrior]

Rick, no hijack intended here, but, how do you do the multiple quotes like you did?

Thanks

Brian