Work permit situation and a ramble

[Red Sea Shadow]

I know Tharir and it could not hold 2 million if you stacked them in double layers. In fact it was in reality only some hundred thousands that were actively involved in the revolution day after day - and in the beginning not even that. How you get to the number of 10 to 12 million escapes me. Other than in Alex, Suez and Cairo there were no demonstrations in Egypt with remarkable numbers of participants. And there were for sure never that number of people on the street on any of the days. Maybe you mean that over the course of 18 days there were 10 to 12 million combined. That´s possible.

You know Tahrir?! So I suppose you have measured it and have done the math in order to come up with the some hundred thousand figure!

The 2 million figure comes from several reports, based on the cameras, the aspect ratios and the head count per shot.

In fact, the numbers were increasing day after day, with exceptional increase on Fridays.

The fact that you were only following the media, which is, not surprisingly, not aiming at covering the whole truth, doesn't mean that you know where and what numbers were involved. The most accurate reports come from insiders; Egyptian people that were dedicated to covering the "events". BTW, do you know, for instance, that even before the revolution starts, a complete team of Egyptian reporters all over the country volunteered to cover the whole thing? As you might expect, the vast majority of information is in Arabic.

No, I mean 10 to 12 million only on February 11th.

 

[macrobubble]

You know Tahrir?! So I suppose you have measured it and have done the math in order to come up with the some hundred thousand figure!

The 2 million figure comes from several reports, based on the cameras, the aspect ratios and the head count per shot.

Not that it really matters, but here´s something scientific you should read:
How Many People Are in Tahrir Square? Here’s How to Tell [Updated] | Danger Room | Wired.com

 

[Red Sea Shadow]

Not that it really matters, but here´s something scientific you should read:
How Many People Are in Tahrir Square? Here’s How to Tell [Updated] | Danger Room | Wired.com

I'm not going to question the intentions of the author, the "scientific" methods he mentioned, the absence of any validation to what he calls scientific, etc...

However, do you really think 200,000 can topple an extremely repressive regime with more than 1.5 million (official number by more than one TV reporter in more than one on-air show) police member?

And yes, it really matters.

 

[macrobubble]

I'm not going to question the intentions of the author, the "scientific" methods he mentioned, the absence of any validation to what he calls scientific, etc...

However, do you really think 200,000 can topple an extremely repressive regime with more than 1.5 million (official number by more than one TV reporter in more than one on-air show) police member?

And yes, it really matters.

No, regarding the topic we originaly discussed (work permits!) it doesn´t matter how many people fit into Tahrir-Square.
And to end this off-topic discussion: the square is of the size it is. Nobody can change that. And into this verifiable space you can only fit so many people. That´s a mathematical fact, wishful thinking and propaganda can´t change. If there were 50.000 or 200.000 people on this square or 2 million does take nothing away from the achievements of the revolution. Its value and success will not be measured in numbers on Tahrir-square but in results for the people in the whole country!

 

[Red Sea Shadow]

If there were 50.000 or 200.000 people on this square or 2 million does take nothing away from the achievements of the revolution.

Great. Only now we can proceed further.

 

[tacky]

I was in Cairo during that two million day covering the events. There was defo much more than 200,000, maybe as many as 2 million. Side streets all around were completely swarmed all the way to abu moneem al riad.

 

[elmagnoon]

There weren't two millions in and around the square at one time. The square was a measure of what was happening across the country and the determination of much of the population. Many of the people who were there on one day were not there on the next so the number of participant/ supporters were much higher than those who could be counted at one time. The events in other major cities around the country made it clear this is a popular uprising that can not be put down by force and the reaction to violence was harder stance by the protesters.
The turning point was when violence by police was met with violence by protesters on January 28 and 29th. That raised the stakes for the entire government and the army alike.

 

[String]

The pay can't go any lower in Dahab.

I know for a fact that at least one well known dive centre will employ Egyptians at 50% the normal foreign commission rate in preference to foreigners (as its cheaper). The result of this is the only people that will work for them are the ones that can't get jobs elsewhere, ie the poor ones.

So as a direct result of this the centres standards have dropped massively and its reputation has suffered.

 

[Red Sea Shadow]

I know for a fact that at least one well known dive centre will employ Egyptians at 50% the normal foreign commission rate in preference to foreigners (as its cheaper). The result of this is the only people that will work for them are the ones that can't get jobs elsewhere, ie the poor ones.

So as a direct result of this the centres standards have dropped massively and its reputation has suffered.

I know at least one foreign manager who used to hire foreign instructors and pay for only 1 OW pax, even if there's 2 students enrolled in the course! You know that the pay in that case is not double, but the difference is "something" in Dahab.

Anyway, when I said the pay can't go any lower, I meant the whole situation. If one pays crap, he can't pay more crap. Moreover, the syndicate is currently under construction. One of the main goals is to establish fair pay standards. Managers won't be able to hire Egyptians for less; not anymore.

 

[macrobubble]

Just to give those members of the forum that are not familiar with Dahab and its freelance system an idea, what we are talking about:

OWD-course first student 90,00 €
OWD-course each add. student 60,00 €
OWD-Ref. first student 50,00 €
OWD-Ref. each add. student 25,00 €
AOWD-course first student 60,00 €
AOWD-course each add. student 30,00 €
Specialty-course each student 30,00 €

day dive up to four diver 11,00 €/dive
day dive each add. diver 5,00 €/dive

night dive up to four diver 15,00 €
night dive each add. diver 5,00 €

2 day camal safari 60,00 €

That´s the system in "my" center. Nationality doesn´t matter...

To put that into perspective:
The center gets (after commission to the travel agents) 208,00 € for an OWD-course and 16,00 € for a dive in a 5 day package.