Unknown Woody From “Dive Talk” DCS and Medical Journey

[Dan]

Come on; that is no help...I did watch it...looking for specific input from divers on forum of suggestions on how to temper or improve diver response in the event of a DCI ...not being a wise guy; like all divers I have skin in the game, my well being...if the specifics are not forthcoming, so be it...I don't beat dead horses..

@InWay2Deep on post #366 pretty much summarizes the gist in that video.

 

[admikar]

From the start we were talking about this group of clowns that nearly killed their friend. They then blasted an insurance agency for not fixing their screw up immediately and completely. As divers, we need to know what our emergency plans are when performing potentially dangerous dives. As tech divers, we need to know the signs of DCS and seek help before we seek out a BBQ. These 2 clowns provided a perfect example of what not to do when dealing with DCS and that is what I am getting at.

An insurance company, that's what DAN is, should provide the service you pay for. They are not miracle workers though. Plan for the worst and hope for the best. I won't drop my coverage because the benefits far outweighs the cost. I also don't dive in remote locations doing stupid first or one-off dives while dehydrated and pushing the limits.

Unfortunately, I can give only one reaction.
This post should be made a sticky.

 

[CT-Rich]

I don't beat dead horses..

Boy did you come to the wrong place….*

*This page 39 of a discussion about one incident and the video.

Would you like a straw to go with your horse juice?

 

[Wallowa]

Boy did you come to the wrong place….*

*This page 39 of a discussion about one incident and the video.

Would you like a straw to go with your horse juice?

Good one! And humor does not escape me....

From the start we were talking about this group of clowns that nearly killed their friend. They then blasted an insurance agency for not fixing their screw up immediately and completely. As divers, we need to know what our emergency plans are when performing potentially dangerous dives. As tech divers, we need to know the signs of DCS and seek help before we seek out a BBQ. These 2 clowns provided a perfect example of what not to do when dealing with DCS and that is what I am getting at.

An insurance company, that's what DAN is, should provide the service you pay for. They are not miracle workers though. Plan for the worst and hope for the best. I won't drop my coverage because the benefits far outweighs the cost. I also don't dive in remote locations doing stupid first or one-off dives while dehydrated and pushing the limits.

Boarderguy,

Many thanks for a cogent post which is appreciated.

Agree with your points 100% and like was stated by another forum member your post should be a sticky.....I have been hustling my butt off trying to re-think and revise/update my personal emergency plan...most recently finally nailing down LifeFlight for a confirmation that with their fixed wing I can expect a requested a cabin altitude pressurization of "close to sea level" pressure...living at 3,900 feet and diving at 4,300+ feet....gaining elevation is not an option after a DCI...not a tech diver [no overhead diving, nor mixed gases or RB for me been there moved on] but with my age and many decades of diving, much of it hair ball deep, my chances of a DCI are enhanced..

Anyway, thanks for the meaningful input from the forum....it gets the juices flowing and hopefully re-orients me in a post LEO-FAST/DAN diving emergency management framework to a more succinct, effectual pathway to planning for "what if"...

Out-Here,,,,,

 

[Boarderguy]

Good one! And humor does not escape me....

Rich,

Many thanks for a cogent post which is appreciated.

Agree with your points 100% and like was stated by another forum member your post should be a sticky.....I have been hustling my butt off trying to re-think and revise/update my personal emergency plan...most recently finally nailing down LifeFlight for a confirmation that with their fixed wing I can expect a requested a cabin altitude pressurization of "close to sea level" pressure...living at 3,900 feet and diving at 4,300+ feet....gaining elevation is not an option after a DCI...not a tech diver [no overhead diving, nor mixed gases or RB for me been there moved on] but with my age and many decades of diving, much of it hair ball deep, my chances of a DCI are enhanced..

Anyway, thanks for the meaningful input from the forum....it gets the juices flowing and hopefully re-orients me in a post LEO-FAST/DAN diving emergency management framework to a more succinct, effectual pathway to planning for "what if"...

Out-Here,,,,,

I'm not Rich.

 

[Wallowa]

I'm not Rich.

View attachment 839872

My error , I edited it before your above post, Semper Fi...but hey, being Rich would not be a bad thing...

 

[CT-Rich]

My error , I edited it before your above post, Semper Fi...but hey, being Rich would not be a bad thing...

Being Rich is more fun if there is money involved…

 

[Six Feet Under]

From the start we were talking about this group of clowns that nearly killed their friend. They then blasted an insurance agency for not fixing their screw up immediately and completely. As divers, we need to know what our emergency plans are when performing potentially dangerous dives. As tech divers, we need to know the signs of DCS and seek help before we seek out a BBQ. These 2 clowns provided a perfect example of what not to do when dealing with DCS and that is what I am getting at.

An insurance company, that's what DAN is, should provide the service you pay for. They are not miracle workers though. Plan for the worst and hope for the best. I won't drop my coverage because the benefits far outweighs the cost. I also don't dive in remote locations doing stupid first or one-off dives while dehydrated and pushing the limits.

Agreed. Nobody gets on a rebreather without doing their checklist first (or if they do, they probably won't do it for long/too many times before disaster strikes). The same "checklist-style" process can be attributed to planning dive trips by identifying expected conditions, hazards, notable points of interest, lodging, proximity to fills, spare parts, supplies, surface support, location of emergency services and their contact information, emergency contacts (2+, preferably not two who are frequently together - stands to reason if one is unavailable the other will be as well, at the same time), ensuring insurance information is readily available (saved in phone, provided to emergency contacts, written hard copy in dive gear/wet notes, etc and telling your buddies/dive team where they can find said information), contacting DAN ahead of time to find out what chambers are in the area, calling or otherwise contacting those chambers to make sure they're open & accepting divers...

 

[YYCLuke]

calling or otherwise contacting those chambers to make sure they're open & accepting divers...

May I add, especially if you are planning a dive that has an increased chance of decompression illness (ie not an OC rec dive), or in a remote area or not a common dive destination...you need to find out where you're going and how you are going to get there.
I deal with emergency planning daily, and one of the things I train my workers is to plan for the worst. What if this particular thing happened, what are you going to do? Take a bear for example, if I have 2 workers who run into a bear, or are attacked, I ask them "what do you do?"
Go back to the truck and call security.
"Okay, then what's the number for security?"
It's xxx-xxx-xxxx.
"Okay, have you called it to make sure it's active/someone knows what to do/someone knows the area you're in? What happens after you call security? Wait around and watch? Or leave without pointing to whoever show up where the bear is?"

The point is, being in a non common area like this particular instance and expecting everything to work the same as if you are in a popular area like Cozumel is just one of the considerations you need to make as a diver who is in that situation. Cover your ass. Picking up a phone and calling and talking to someone typically only costs your time.

 

[Nitrogenius]

Regardless of the reasons and explanations and recollections given from both DAN and the DT guys, the fact remains that the ball was dropped and some procedures need to be improved on.. Whether that is the divers are modifying their own ERP (have more than just "Call DAN" in case of emergency), and DAN revising their response procedures as well, especially in non common dive areas.

Exactly.. Having their own ERP being more than just call Dan. And on top of that then being upset and surprised if stuff does not go the way you simply expect it.
That's what I was talking about from the getgo (like any sign of accepted self-responsibilty to contributing top the circumstances), but just getting fanboy pushback.
I really do not watch that video, but do they show any sign they learned something from that by now and adjust their behaviour in the future?
This would be interesting. Yes Dan made mistakes there and had a not so great service provider involved apparently, but quite likely this whole incident might very well not have happened at all, had they been properly prepared.
Own ERP would include
- knowing which credit cards work THERE up to which limit
- knowing who to call and verify that the call would be answered
- knowing which chambers are working and by which means they are accesible in what time

Also a proper prep would have included realising that the dive in question was not some run of the mill dive, but is in a fairly remote area, involves decompression, involves restrictions, so all attributes that should be taken into consideration to have protocolls in place and also to prepare for the dive physically and mentally (sleep, hydration, mindset etc.)

So would all that have been done, the accident might still have happened (even though that is questionable), but surely there wouldn't have been any declined credit card issues, nor would it have taken so long to get to the right chamber.

But surely that was all the fault and respoinsibility of DAN I suppose (at least in their minds I guess - and the fanboys minds not to forget)

DAN procedures were improved almost immediately. Diver response must also be improved and that is on us.

Yup diver response and diver preparation

Funny......vocabulary lesson notwithstanding; while I agree the ball is in our court [divers] I really am interested in specifics on how we can improve on our emergency plans and responses in the event we suffer a DCI. The suggestions of others is solicited and welcomed but the devil is in the details. Thanks.

if it was only about improving emergency plans. Some celebrities that engage in quite adavanced diving obviously think an emergency plan is not even necessary, because when something happens we can point