Unknown Woody From “Dive Talk” DCS and Medical Journey

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All you suggest is good....but where do you get a listing of "closest chambers" ?? .....still the weak link and list needed if the individual diver does choose to develop a detailed emergency plan and the verify the elements of that plan just before the dives...

You'd be surprised how many private chambers I've found local to me, for an area that "doesn't have any hyperbaric capability," just looking on Google. It would be a start, albeit an imperfect one.
 
You'd be surprised how many private chambers I've found local to me, for an area that "doesn't have any hyperbaric capability," just looking on Google. It would be a start, albeit an imperfect one.
How many of them are both capable and interested in treating divers? A lot of chambers have lots of patients booked for wound therapy or other purposes and don’t want to mess up their cash cow (and also don’t have anyone on-call). I’m also not at all confident that people fully qualified to administer wound therapy or other non-emergency treatment are qualified to treat DCS.
 
I'm not sure what the confusion is?
DAN will not publish that list, for reasons already stated above, and risk being sued for false info.
And main characters of this exact thread are prime example people will try to shift responsibility as much as possible.
 
I'm not sure what the confusion is?
DAN will not publish that list, for reasons already stated above, and risk being sued for false info.
And main characters of this exact thread are prime example people will try to shift responsibility as much as possible.
Not certain what you are eluding to. Who is shifting responsibility to whom?

I believe the desire is to assume responsibility and accountability for our own safety and if necessary our treatment in cases of DCI....BUT, DAN notwithstanding, the individual diver can't have a definitive dive emergency plan without knowledge of where the closest diver treatment chamber is. Wound treatment chambers, tons of them, for the reasons Kevin stated, are inadequate for many DCI events and all type 2 DCS. Serious hits and embolism need 6ata chamber.

Not rocket science; emergency plan needs:

#1 Closest diver treatment hyperbaric chamber, 6ata is by far the best option;
#2 Is there a means of directly contacting that chamber to assure operational status;
#3 Are those operating the chamber specifically trained in evaluating and treating divers;
#4 What is the correct [pressurized in case of aircraft] and fastest medical transportation options to that chamber.

No finger pointing. But the weakness within the diving community for treating DCI rests with each of us. Yes, DAN and others have business constraints but withholding fundamental information like the location of 6ata chambers is the least they can do.

Amazing how many divers still "leave it up to them to help me" rather than engaging in improving the current lack of information and coordination with those that could provide emergency treatment. Passing the buck is all too common nowadays as is rationalizing and sidestepping accountability. DAN or UHMS are not the front line of saving your butt that is up to each of us. Turn a blind eye at your peril; why I personally want to know the closest 6ata chamber to my dive sites.

DSO
 
Not certain what you are eluding to. Who is shifting responsibility to whom?

I believe the desire is to assume responsibility and accountability for our own safety and if necessary our treatment in cases of DCI....BUT, DAN notwithstanding, the individual diver can't have a definitive dive emergency plan without knowledge of where the closest diver treatment chamber is. Wound treatment chambers, tons of them, for the reasons Kevin stated, are inadequate for many DCI events and all type 2 DCS. Serious hits and embolism need 6ata chamber.

Not rocket science; emergency plan needs:

#1 Closest diver treatment hyperbaric chamber, 6ata is by far the best option;
#2 Is there a means of directly contacting that chamber to assure operational status;
#3 Are those operating the chamber specifically trained in evaluating and treating divers;
#4 What is the correct [pressurized in case of aircraft] and fastest medical transportation options to that chamber.

No finger pointing. But the weakness within the diving community for treating DCI rests with each of us. Yes, DAN and others have business constraints but withholding fundamental information like the location of 6ata chambers is the least they can do.

Amazing how many divers still "leave it up to them to help me" rather than engaging in improving the current lack of information and coordination with those that could provide emergency treatment. Passing the buck is all too common nowadays as is rationalizing and sidestepping accountability. DAN or UHMS are not the front line of saving your butt that is up to each of us. Turn a blind eye at your peril; why I personally want to know the closest 6ata chamber to my dive sites.

DSO
According to Woddy, they did absolutely nothing wrong. They said it then, they are saying it now.
He got a nice amount of money doing videos on this case. Agree, he made videos, aka earned it, but the result is the same. If you think he wouldn't sue otherwise, you're naive at best.
Now imagine DAN publishes that list, which as someone here already said, will become obsolete almost immediately. Seeing how litigious world has become, spearheaded by the USA, what would be your logical conclusion about what would happen if someone gets bent and the chamber on that list is not active?
 
Not certain what you are eluding to. Who is shifting responsibility to whom?

I believe the desire is to assume responsibility and accountability for our own safety and if necessary our treatment in cases of DCI....BUT, DAN notwithstanding, the individual diver can't have a definitive dive emergency plan without knowledge of where the closest diver treatment chamber is. Wound treatment chambers, tons of them, for the reasons Kevin stated, are inadequate for many DCI events and all type 2 DCS. Serious hits and embolism need 6ata chamber.

Not rocket science; emergency plan needs:

#1 Closest diver treatment hyperbaric chamber, 6ata is by far the best option;
#2 Is there a means of directly contacting that chamber to assure operational status;
#3 Are those operating the chamber specifically trained in evaluating and treating divers;
#4 What is the correct [pressurized in case of aircraft] and fastest medical transportation options to that chamber.

No finger pointing. But the weakness within the diving community for treating DCI rests with each of us. Yes, DAN and others have business constraints but withholding fundamental information like the location of 6ata chambers is the least they can do.

Amazing how many divers still "leave it up to them to help me" rather than engaging in improving the current lack of information and coordination with those that could provide emergency treatment. Passing the buck is all too common nowadays as is rationalizing and sidestepping accountability. DAN or UHMS are not the front line of saving your butt that is up to each of us. Turn a blind eye at your peril; why I personally want to know the closest 6ata chamber to my dive sites.

DSO
You seem to be advocating for DIY rather than engaging the experienced and proven professionals. I am not that egotistical. I don't cut my own hair, either, much less take out my own gall bladder.
 
According to Woddy, they did absolutely nothing wrong. They said it then, they are saying it now.
He got a nice amount of money doing videos on this case. Agree, he made videos, aka earned it, but the result is the same. If you think he wouldn't sue otherwise, you're naive at best.
Now imagine DAN publishes that list, which as someone here already said, will become obsolete almost immediately. Seeing how litigious world has become, spearheaded by the USA, what would be your logical conclusion about what would happen if someone gets bent and the chamber on that list is not active?

Couple of assumptions there. I agree that Dive Talk hyped that serious incident while sidestepping the responsibility; just my take. However, chamber information does not necessarily "become obsolete almost immediately"...lacking the location and contact number for your closest chamber capable of treating a Type 2 DCS or a serious DCI what are your options? Do a Woody? Rely on "someone" to bail you out? No, assume that responsibility for yourself. Chamber locations and contact points are a minimal and essential part of a dive emergency plan.

Previously posted several times is a simple solution: List diver treatment chambers, not just wound/disease chambers, along with a means of immediately contacting them [phone or website in your emergency plan] to assure operational status. Individual divers are on the hook to confirm chamber status. Don't forget correct transportation information. Not a big deal really. Running from responsibility due to possibly being sued is a fools errand. May protect, it will not, the corporation but does not serve the diving community. Or so as I see it.

DSO
 
You seem to be advocating for DIY rather than engaging the experienced and proven professionals. I am not that egotistical. I don't cut my own hair, either, much less take out my own gall bladder.
No, I believe walking and chewing gum at the same time can be done. Have the best emergency plan in place for your dive site and if DCI occurs you activate that plan which would include a DAN contact; but you have the primary pieces already verified and in place. Proven professional in some areas to be sure; but, why bet your life that they can provide you with the best expedited care. If you DIY as you say and lay the ground work with a good emergency plan it can only help the professionals; a diver should DIY in providing for your own safety.

Not about ego but about taking responsibility for your own actions or in-actions. Diving safety always comes down to individual accountability.

Hey, I could be wrong and some divers may correctly prefer to defer their safety to others. To each their own. I am not desiring to engage in verbal combat, only offering my views and opinions.

DSO
 
No, I believe walking and chewing gum at the same time can be done. Have the best emergency plan in place for your dive site and if DCI occurs you activate that plan which would include a DAN contact; but you have the primary pieces already verified and in place. Proven professional in some areas to be sure; but, why bet your life that they can provide you with the best expedited care. If you DIY as you say and lay the ground work with a good emergency plan it can only help the professionals; a diver should DIY in providing for your own safety.

Not about ego but about taking responsibility for your own actions or in-actions. Diving safety always comes down to individual accountability.

Hey, I could be wrong and some divers may correctly prefer to defer their safety to others. To each their own. I am not desiring to engage in verbal combat, only offering my views and opinions.

DSO
And my preference is to let the pros do their job and not tell them how to do it.
This does not mean not having an EAP.
My best DIY is recognizing symptoms early and getting the pros involved ASAP, neither of which did the subjects of this thread do.
 
I don't understand the need for us (as divers) to have a comprehensive database of chambers. Lists are immediately outdated and even if updated, prior outdated lists will persist on the internet.

DAN has stated if you're traveling or diving outside the US, they will happily work with you on an EAP.

Regardless, as also stated in the article, suspected DCS should first be confirmed by a physician, even if to also diagnose or rule out other medical conditions, then a chamber confirmed and transportation to the chamber arranged.

If you're saying that you need to know chambers beforehand but you're first step is still to call DAN, then I don't understand the need for the list? DAN will take the same steps regardless of your list and will therefore not affect the outcome.

I get the desire to have a list for EAP planning, but give me a use case where a list would alter the outcome of an accident that DAN would manage.
 
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