Wondering where your stuff from overseas is? Shipaggedon!

[Jared0425]

We can thank Richard Nixon for opening up relations with China.
I’ve said this for years that we’re F’ing ourselves.
If we were cut off from Chinese manufacturing 100% we would be screwed in a week, and they know it!

The complexities of Cold War politics necessitated the relations with China. It caused a strategic shift in handling the ailing Soviet Union. The relationship had benefited both countries and also has caused hurt to both.

Cutting ourselves off from China and vice versa severely hurts both of us, the difference being that the Chinese have a much higher pain tolerance than Americans. China is now the economic engine that drives the world, but the US has the wheel. And just like a wheel, we rise and fall and then repeat.

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

China doesn't do things that are bad for business. At least not yet. In terms of semiconductors, while Intel had the lead in the 90s, clown CEOs like Paul "no company t-shirts and ignore the fact I'm wearing one" Otellini and those that followed, Intel fell far behind. Samsung is close to catching up. But even if they do, an invasion of Taiwan would have far more severe impacts on the global economy than the fascists (Russians) invading Ukraine.

China is all about everyday products we use and technology. Russia is all about fuels and trying to choke out Ukraine’s supply of food to the world.
Both things would have disastrous consequences.
Interesting times.
I just want to see us (the US) think about being a little more self sufficient so we have the capability to carry on as a country if everything else completely melts down. A bunch of ships sit anchored off the coast and we’re already melting down. What would happen if there was a real problem!?

 

[Marie13]

China is all about everyday products we use and technology. Russia is all about fuels and trying to choke out Ukraine’s supply of food to the world.
Both things would have disastrous consequences.
Interesting times.
I just want to see us (the US) think about being a little more self sufficient so we have the capability to carry on as a country if everything else completely melts down. A bunch of ships sit anchored off the coast and we’re already melting down. What would happen if there was a real problem!?

Americans don’t want to pay the higher prices US made goods would cost. I seek out US made goods whenever I can and the cost is significantly higher.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

Americans don’t want to pay the higher prices US made goods would cost. I seek out US made goods whenever I can and the cost is significantly higher.

that will get worse over time due to volume.

There is sometimes a different aspect coming into play. This one pissed me off. Gateway (if they still exist) assembled all their computers in the US. For Windows Vista (when I was workin in Windows), Microsoft set the release to manufacturing and the release to market to ensure that all the companies that assemble in China were able to supply the US market at the same time.

Just why the F$%$ should Microsoft care when that happens? Those companies made their own business decisions. Let them enjoy the benefits, suffer the consequences of their decisions.

I just want to see us (the US) think about being a little more self sufficient so we have the capability to carry on as a country if everything else completely melts down. A bunch of ships sit anchored off the coast and we’re already melting down. What would happen if there was a real problem!?

I would hope that one day 3D printing will allow for on demand products to be made/distributed faster.

But the distribution system was slowly optimized over time. Any event like covid or war completely disrupts that and getting it back on track will likely take years.

 

[dmaziuk]

Just why the F$%$ should Microsoft care when that happens? Those companies made their own business decisions. Let them enjoy the benefits, suffer the consequences of their decisions.

"Just why would Microsoft care" full stop: if they could sell their POS on its own strengths, they wouldn't've needed to subsidize PC assemblers with their "home license included" sh*t.

 

[dmaziuk]

... But even if they do, an invasion of Taiwan would have far more severe impacts on the global economy than the fascists (Russians) invading Ukraine.

If Russia succeeds in choking EU with their gas and US: with oil, they'll set a precedent for China.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

If Russia succeeds in choking EU with their gas and US: with oil, they'll set a precedent for China.

I don't think that's going to happen. Countries like Germany are going to learn the hard way that they shouldn't single source their energy sources to fascist regimes. Russia did have a pattern of invading other countries: Yelstin had to increase his popularity in 1998, so they trumped up Chechnya for that. Though the first invasion didn't go so well. Then there was Georgia with some BS dispute. It appears Russia has bitten off more than it can chew with Ukraine. Let's hope the West doesn't get war fatigue. There is too much misinformation on both sides, and I get all the propaganda from my wife's family in Russia (Belgorod to be specific, right across the border from Kharkiv).

On February 23, the day before the Russian invasion, the price of oil per barrel was $92.10 (per Oil Price Charts | Oilprice.com). Yet on July 12th, it was $95.84. These are things that make me go hmmmm. I don't want to say there is price gouging by the oil companies, but there certainly is price gouging by the oil companies.

The real issue for winter is natural gas. We will see how shipping from Israel, the US, and the Gulf can offset the easy distribution through pipelines.

Given how poorly the Russian army has historically performed, how they have unified NATO, if the sanctions continue, it is going to affect Russia for years. Sure, they are able to find other sources to sell their oil and natural gas, but it isn't as profitable, and they cannot get the computer chips needed for their high end weaponry. China cannot supply that yet, and yes, China is hard at work to make themselves self sufficient. Invading Taiwan affects the global economy far more than the invasion of Ukraine. For Ukraine, it is the undeveloped world that suffers the most. The developed world isn't going to stick their necks out for them. That's the reality.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

"Just why would Microsoft care" full stop: if they could sell their POS on its own strengths, they wouldn't've needed to subsidize PC assemblers with their "home license included" sh*t.

what subsidies are you talking about?

 

[dmaziuk]

what subsidies are you talking about?

Refund of pre-installed Windows: Lenovo must pay 20,000 euros in damages - FSFE

In a historic judgment in Italy, in a case initiated by FSFE supporter Luca Bonissi, Lenovo was ordered to pay 20,000 euros in damages for abusive behaviou...

fsfe.org

These have been going on for years, this one's just top of the google hit list.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

Refund of pre-installed Windows: Lenovo must pay 20,000 euros in damages - FSFE

In a historic judgment in Italy, in a case initiated by FSFE supporter Luca Bonissi, Lenovo was ordered to pay 20,000 euros in damages for abusive behaviou...

fsfe.org

These have been going on for years, this one's just top of the google hit list.

Those are not subsidies.

sub·si·dy
[ˈsəbsədē]

NOUN

1. a sum of money granted by the government or a public body to assist an industry or business so that the price of a commodity or service may remain low or competitive:
   "a farm subsidy" ·
   [more]
   • a sum of money granted to support an arts organization or other undertaking held to be in the public interest:
     "she was anxious about her Arts Council subsidy" ·
     [more]
     synonyms:
     funds · assets · money · capital · resources · cash · wealth ·
     [more]
   • a grant or contribution of money:
     "the position is generously rewarded and benefits include a mortgage subsidy" ·
     [more]
     synonyms:
     grant · allowance · endowment · contribution · donation · bursary ·
     [more]
2. historical
   a parliamentary grant to the sovereign for state needs.

Those are strong arm contracts. Microsoft never paid anyone to install Windows (that would be a subsidy). But rather, they required that other Microsoft bloatware come pre-installed. If you wanted to ship PC's with Windows, you had to play by their rules. That is, until different governments stepped in.