Woman critical after West Van scuba diving accident - Canada

[MXGratefulDiver]

Well, let's remedy your awareness level.

Since this has become the dominate point of all your posts in the last few months, I thought I would check it out. I sent messages to seven agencies asking for their standards in this area. So far I have only gotten replies from four of them. Of those four, only NAUI includes underwater recovery of the unconscious diver under water. I am guessing that CMAS must also, since you represent them. ( did not attempt to contact them for this reason.)

I do not expect replies from the other agencies I attempted to contact. I have written them in the past with questions and never received a reply.

So we know that 2 agencies include this skill in OW class, and at least 4 do not.

So, now that you know better, maybe you can amend your crusade.

YMCA did when I did my OW class ... I imagine SEI still does ... (Jim?)

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Crush]

Well, let's remedy your awareness level.

Since this has become the dominate point of all your posts in the last few months, I thought I would check it out. I sent messages to seven agencies asking for their standards in this area. So far I have only gotten replies from four of them. Of those four, only NAUI includes underwater recovery of the unconscious diver under water. I am guessing that CMAS must also, since you represent them. ( did not attempt to contact them for this reason.)

I do not expect replies from the other agencies I attempted to contact. I have written them in the past with questions and never received a reply.

So we know that 2 agencies include this skill in OW class, and at least 4 do not.

So, now that you know better, maybe you can amend your crusade.

ACUC taught me underwater recovery in basic OW in 2008.

boulderjohn, if we are going to be fair, DCBC points out what he perceives to be flaws in diver training - he does so regularly. You, boulderjohn, defend what you perceive to be slights against PADI - you do so regularly.

Which are the three agencies (besides PADI) that do not teach underwater diver recovery?

 

[DandyDon]

Rescue training is great, but I'd like to see more OW divers who know to keep the reg in their mouth until back on the boat/shore, how to dump weights on surface when indicated and orally inflate if needed, swim with their buddies - just decent prevention skills.

 

[TSandM]

I'm not sure I've ever seen a jet ski in Puget Sound -- certainly not at a dive site. And most of the places where I dive have little or no boat traffic, either. This definitely could impact my perspective, although I can control a neutral ascent to 18" underwater, and I can finish it off vertical and looking up if I want to, too. I still don't really see why being negative is all that desirable.

 

[Crush]

Rescue training is great, but I'd like to see more OW divers who know to keep the reg in their mouth until back on the boat/shore, how to dump weights on surface when indicated and orally inflate if needed, swim with their buddies - just decent prevention skills.

DandyDon, I can't argue with your sentiments.

There are arguments to be made both in favour of and against instructors who derive most of their income from instructing. My instructor was "old school" and had a full-time job (that paid quite well). He required much of us and had no problem failing anyone for under-performing - he didn't need the money, and he had rigid standards. He was able to train good divers and he did fail students that didn't meet standards. Those who passed were able to keep their regs in their mouths, dump weights, ascertain responsiveness underwater, surface with an unconscious diver, and tow said diver to shore.

 

[boulderjohn]

.

Which are the three agencies (besides PADI) that do not teach underwater diver recovery?

SSI, SDI, and IDEA.

EDIT: That's of those I have surveyed. The only agency that told me it was included in regular OW standards was NAUI.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Rescue training is great, but I'd like to see more OW divers who know to keep the reg in their mouth until back on the boat/shore, how to dump weights on surface when indicated and orally inflate if needed, swim with their buddies - just decent prevention skills.

Don't they teach those skills in Texas?

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Crush]

Don't they teach those skills in Texas?

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Bob, it is more difficult to rescue someone underwater if you are wearing a revolver...

 

[DandyDon]

Rescue training is great, but I'd like to see more OW divers who know to keep the reg in their mouth until back on the boat/shore, how to dump weights on surface when indicated and orally inflate if needed, swim with their buddies - just decent prevention skills.

Don't they teach those skills in Texas?

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

I suppose the other Instructors here and elsewhere cover them. What's taught in OW and what's drilled, retained, and used on trips so often has too little in common, which can be seen in reading A&I threads I think.

 

[John C. Ratliff]

From the NAUI Instructor's Manual, 1975:

c) Diving Safety

This area is to provide the student with a basic knowledge of lifesaving and first aid as applied to diving, underwater communications, underwater orientation, dive planning and safety rules are also to be covered. Shock, wounds, and drowning are to be covered under first aid. Lifesaving is to include rescues, tows and artificial respiration as they apply to open water...

...d) Open Water Skin and Scuba Diving

1) Perform without stress: water entries/exits, surface dives, buoyancy control and surfacing techniques that are required to do surface, underwater and survival swimming with both skin and scuba equipment.

2) Make a complete rescue of a buddy diver. (emphasis added, jcr)

3) With scuba equipment: clear mask and mouthpiece, buddy breathe, alternate between snorkel and scuba and make a controlled emergency swimming ascent.

The NAUI Pro Manual has a whole section on "Rescue and Emergency Procedures." It goes through the following topics:

--Causes of Diving Accidents
*Health Problems
*Lack of Training
*Exposure
*Fatigue
*Entanglements
*Aquatic Life Injuries
*Environmental Conditions
*Equipment Problems
*Out Of Air

Short of equipment malfunction which is extremely rare, there is NO EXCUSE for a diver running out of air underwater. NO diver should enter the openwater environment without a submersible pressure gauge. In conjunction with this, other reserve warning devices are available for back-up. The means exists to virtually eliminate the out of air accidents with its subsequently hazardous reliance on emergency ascent procedures. Strong emphasis is needed on preventing those situations from developing, rather than treating them.

Lack of understanding and abuses of buoyancy control are often dealt with in this Manual. Such things as overweighting requiring unnecessary compensation and using BC's to create human lift bags are abuses of the buoyancy system. It is as important to point out these abuses as it is to teach the understanding of the buoyancy systems labor saving potential. The specific type of buoyancy system used (jacket, pack, front mounted, back mounted, etc.) is less important than the necessity of training the diver to use it properly.

See Appendix for additional material on stress.

*Failure to Control Buoyancy

As a single source of trouble, the divers failure to neutralize buoyancy at depth and to attain positive buoyancy after surfacing is probably the greatest contributor to diving accidents.

Accident studies implicate surface accidents in a large percentage of diving fatalities. Obviously, the chance of a conscious diver drowning when in a state of positive buoyancy is virtually non-existent.

Therefore, to avoid problems of fatigue, to avoid problems of too rapid an ascent or descent, to avoid problems of fighting to stay up or down, the diver should learn to quickly and efficiently control buoyancy.

Ascents can be a problem. The safe ascent rate is 60 feet per minute. This is quite slow and is often exceeded by divers who do not pay attention. Particularly in the last 20 feet of ascent, divers exceed this as the expanding BC and suit increase buoyancy. Careful attention, therefore, should be given to the ascent with normal breathing or continuous exhalation in an emergency ascent.

In routine diving, buoyancy ccontrol is maintained with the assistance of the buoyancy compensator, back inflation pack, or similar systems. If necessary in an emergency, the entire weight system may be dropped to attain positive buoyancy.

*Anxiety or Stress

Anxiety beore a dive is not unusual for the beginner. It is not even a bad thing so long as it signals the novice to pay particular attention to the pre-dive buddy checks and the procedures for the dive.

Anxiety does become a problem when it interferes with the normal careful thoughtful planning and execution o the dive.

*Panic

Panic, without a doubt, is the most serious enemy of the diver. Starting with a minor problem or stress of some sort, it leads to increasing anxiety until finally the person reaches a state of panic -- a state of unreasoning fear characterized by inappropriate actions.

Panicky victims seem unable to help themselves, they have no recall of their training and may even do things that increase their plight. Indeed when panic has arrived, diver training has failed; at this point only the buddy or other outside source offers much hope of assistance. Panic does not normally develop suddenly; it builds gradually. Divers should learn to recognize in themselves and their buddies signs of discomfort and anxiety. Early recognition of such symptoms will enable the divers to STOP -- THINK -- AND GET CONTROL. They will be able to discontinue their activity, to neutralize buoyancy, to surface, to return to shore or to take other measures before anxiety becomes an unreasoning state of panic.

Rescue

*Self Rescue
*Tired Diver on the Surface
*Unconscious Diver On The Surface
*Struggling Diver On The Surface
*Unconscious Non-Breathing Diver Underwater
*Points to Remember in Rescues

--React immediately, time is of the essence, but do not react without thinking.
--Make rescues by the quickest and simplest means, use additional surface floats such as surf mats or innertubes if available. These may be pushed to the victim rather than making personal contact.
--Pace yourself. You are no help to the victim or yourself if you arrive too tired to assist. Try to get victims to help themselves first.
--Always have positive buoyancy before making contact with an active victim on the surface.
--Drop any extraneous equipment in the diver's hands first. Drop the victim's weights to achieve maximum buoyancy.
--Do not undertake a rescue beyond your ability. Be careful when approaching a panicky victim.
--For mouth-to-mouth resuscitation, adequate ventilation is more important than speed of transport.
--The victim's equipment should be ditched before the rescuer's. Since tank ditching may be time consuming and difficult, it should be done only if necessary.
--Preferably await assistance before removing a stable breathing victim from the water.
--Get additional training in diver rescue techniques and practice techniques at regular intervals. The Red Cross and others offer additional training in life saving, first aid, and CPR.

All the above were in Lecture #5 of the 1977 NAUI Pro Manual (Professional Resource Organizer) written by Ted Boehler over 33 years ago for the basic scuba course. I quoted only a few of the topics listed.

SeaRat
NAUI #2710 (Retired)