Woman critical after West Van scuba diving accident - Canada
- Thread starter DandyDon
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I just added it up, and I've now been diving for 51 years. I'm diving basically the same way I dove in the 1960 and 1970s. Yes, I have a BC; actually, I patented a vest-style BC that I call the Para-Sea BC, and am wearing it in my avitar. Here's a photo of the Para-Sea BC in use in Clear Lake, Oregon:
As you can see, I'm pretty well balanced. I maintain that no matter where I am in the water column. But I also swim up and down; it's easy when I am neutral, and I can do whatever I want in any part of the water column. I don't do a "buoyant ascent" as such, only keep managing the air in my BC as I ascend. It's easy to bleed air out of my BC, and it should be easy with any BC that is well-designed. I still dive that Para-Sea BC, which was photographed above in the 1980s; it was in the water with me last Saturday. I am not what an ol' dive shop owner, Bill Herder (now deceased), wet suit designer and BC designer (he built a BC into the back of his wet suits) termed a "push-button diver." I don't use the button to gain in the water column, or to dive. I surface dive, and compensate when I become heavy. And I come up the way I discussed above.
SeaRat
NAUI #2710 (Retired)
As you can see, I'm pretty well balanced. I maintain that no matter where I am in the water column. But I also swim up and down; it's easy when I am neutral, and I can do whatever I want in any part of the water column. I don't do a "buoyant ascent" as such, only keep managing the air in my BC as I ascend. It's easy to bleed air out of my BC, and it should be easy with any BC that is well-designed. I still dive that Para-Sea BC, which was photographed above in the 1980s; it was in the water with me last Saturday. I am not what an ol' dive shop owner, Bill Herder (now deceased), wet suit designer and BC designer (he built a BC into the back of his wet suits) termed a "push-button diver." I don't use the button to gain in the water column, or to dive. I surface dive, and compensate when I become heavy. And I come up the way I discussed above.
SeaRat
NAUI #2710 (Retired)
For this thread's accident, I think the current discussion about negative ascents is pretty far from the target. Until we get more info, they were reportedly on alternate ascent when she let go and sank; body found at 45 fsw. If she had been properly weighted the effort to ascend from ~33 ft (2 ATM) should not have been significant exertion to cause a problem.
1. . . She reportedly ran out of air - catastrophic failure, inaccurate spg or inattentive diver (and buddy)?
2. . . Spit out buddy's alternate on ascent - inhaled salt water due bad buddy spacing, bad reg exchange or inoperative alternate?
3. . . Sank out of buddy's reach - questionable alternate ascent procedures, overweighted &/or complete BC failure?
For all we know there could have been a bit of buoyant acceleration at the beginning of the ascent and in the panic to successfully dump her BC the alternate was dislodged, but at whatever depth she lost contact, she sank.
For all we know her buddy put an alternate in an already not responsive mouth and thought he was ascending with a responsive, still diving buddy; the eyes don't always close when you freeze in fear.
Mix and match; even the still living person involved likely doesn't know exactly what happened.
1. . . She reportedly ran out of air - catastrophic failure, inaccurate spg or inattentive diver (and buddy)?
2. . . Spit out buddy's alternate on ascent - inhaled salt water due bad buddy spacing, bad reg exchange or inoperative alternate?
3. . . Sank out of buddy's reach - questionable alternate ascent procedures, overweighted &/or complete BC failure?
For all we know there could have been a bit of buoyant acceleration at the beginning of the ascent and in the panic to successfully dump her BC the alternate was dislodged, but at whatever depth she lost contact, she sank.
For all we know her buddy put an alternate in an already not responsive mouth and thought he was ascending with a responsive, still diving buddy; the eyes don't always close when you freeze in fear.
Mix and match; even the still living person involved likely doesn't know exactly what happened.
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funrecdiver
Contributor
I also was confused by the buoyance discussion.
Divers should be neutrally buoyant in the water at the end of the dive based on having zero air in the BCD.
To ascend slowly, the diver can either kick very gently (more like a vertical walk) or change breathing to provide a little bit of positive buoyancy from the lungs. (Or use ascent line of course).
There should never be any air in the BCD on a normal ascent for any reason. All divers I know work hard to insure their BCD is always completely void of gas on ascent.
To avoid surface problems with watercraft, you listen below the surface around the safety stop, deploy an SMB or use your octopus to steam bubbles to the surface, and ascent super slowly.
I agree this discussion has moved off target, but that is par for the course on SB, nothing much can be done about that.
Most of these threads are pure speculation anyway. All of this adds to the educational value of this forum.
Dive neutrally buoyant with zero air in your BCD except when you are slightly negative at the beginning of your dive due to a full tank of gas! Use your lungs and never, never, never use air in your BCD to ascend. If you must do this, you are way overweighed!!!
Divers should be neutrally buoyant in the water at the end of the dive based on having zero air in the BCD.
To ascend slowly, the diver can either kick very gently (more like a vertical walk) or change breathing to provide a little bit of positive buoyancy from the lungs. (Or use ascent line of course).
There should never be any air in the BCD on a normal ascent for any reason. All divers I know work hard to insure their BCD is always completely void of gas on ascent.
To avoid surface problems with watercraft, you listen below the surface around the safety stop, deploy an SMB or use your octopus to steam bubbles to the surface, and ascent super slowly.
I agree this discussion has moved off target, but that is par for the course on SB, nothing much can be done about that.
Most of these threads are pure speculation anyway. All of this adds to the educational value of this forum.
Dive neutrally buoyant with zero air in your BCD except when you are slightly negative at the beginning of your dive due to a full tank of gas! Use your lungs and never, never, never use air in your BCD to ascend. If you must do this, you are way overweighed!!!
Crush
Contributor
Written like a warm-water diver! In cold water water we use excessively buoyant thermal protection which compresses at depth.
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Well it may not have much to do with this accident, but it's here - and a good time for some to learn choices...
Sorry, but not me, as explained earlier.
I hope you have enough close calls to change your mind before you get hit. I saw a fast boat nearly run over our sausage last week, with the line holder just barely retaining the reel so his hand wouldn't get hurt if it did, and listening for crafts is far from guaranteed effective. Ever hear a sail boat or board approaching under water? They still hut when they hit. And bubbles...?!
Sorry, too funny.I'll still kick from 15 feet thanks.
Yeah, I was just going to say, Funrecdiver, your "rules" may be easy to follow for tropical diving, but certainly do not apply to cold water diving! Having done a fair amount of both, I can certainly say that it is WAY easier to control your buoyancy in tropical water, compared to cold water.
Just a few more details would really help the discussion; experience, exposure protection, releasable and non-releasable weight, general fitness, dive profile....
I think it is better to discuss the types of ascents than to needlessly speculate on the actual accident, which we don't know about and will probably never know about. The reason for these discussions is to trigger the possibility of learning from others; the specific accident is simply a trigger to help us discuss how to apply what may be lessons to our own diving.
By the way, halemanō, this was not a "body" recovery; this was and is a living diver. As a former Pararescueman, this is an important distinction.
SeaRat
By the way, halemanō, this was not a "body" recovery; this was and is a living diver. As a former Pararescueman, this is an important distinction.
SeaRat
funrecdiver
Contributor
Agreed.
I only dive in warm tropical water and am perfectly happy doing so in my .5 mil wetsuit ;D
However, I do understand physics pretty well and understand that if the diver was in cold water with a lot of thick thermal protection, buoyancy techniques change.
Sorry, I read many posts in the thread and missed that part.
In tropical waters, we dive neutrally buoyant and use our lungs to ascend and descend. No one I dive with here uses negative buoyancy as an emergency backup plan to escape being hit by boats; however I can see the benefit of this approach.
On the other hand, since diving neutrally buoyant with zero air in the BCD is optimal for many reasons, I'll keep diving in tropical waters without feeling guilty about it and continue to avoid dive sites where fear of reckless speedboats is a major concern as to force a change in weights and buoyancy.
Yes, I can't comment on cold water diving, thank goodness, lucky me.
I only dive in warm tropical water and am perfectly happy doing so in my .5 mil wetsuit ;D
However, I do understand physics pretty well and understand that if the diver was in cold water with a lot of thick thermal protection, buoyancy techniques change.
Sorry, I read many posts in the thread and missed that part.
In tropical waters, we dive neutrally buoyant and use our lungs to ascend and descend. No one I dive with here uses negative buoyancy as an emergency backup plan to escape being hit by boats; however I can see the benefit of this approach.
On the other hand, since diving neutrally buoyant with zero air in the BCD is optimal for many reasons, I'll keep diving in tropical waters without feeling guilty about it and continue to avoid dive sites where fear of reckless speedboats is a major concern as to force a change in weights and buoyancy.
Yes, I can't comment on cold water diving, thank goodness, lucky me.
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