Winning lionfish battle #2

[SailNaked]

Seems several of the local species have learned to eat the lionfish the DMs are feeding them, and even follow them in the hope of a cheap meal. they barely have them squeered before some fish wants to suck it down.
maybe they will teach their young and the lionfish issue will go back to natures control. on our dives the grouper and the eels seem to love lionfish snacks.

are other dive areas feeding the lionfish to the indigenous species? I would think this would be the answer long term to the issue.

 

[ggunn]

Seems several of the local species have learned to eat the lionfish the DMs are feeding them, and even follow them in the hope of a cheap meal. they barely have them squeered before some fish wants to suck it down.
maybe they will teach their young and the lionfish issue will go back to natures control. on our dives the grouper and the eels seem to love lionfish snacks.

are other dive areas feeding the lionfish to the indigenous species? I would think this would be the answer long term to the issue.

A couple of things. One, fish do not teach their young anything; fish lay eggs and go away. Two, the fish that depend on humans to feed them are fixated on the humans, not the food. And three, it is one thing for a predator fish to accept the handout of a dead lionfish from a diver; it is quite a different matter for it to take on a lionfish that is healthy and capable of defending itself.

I don't believe that feeding lionfish to other fish is going to change the feeding habits of any species. The actions of a few divers will not stand against an invasion of lionfish. This scenario has been played out many times, and the invasive species virtually always wins. Kudzu and water hyacinth in the southeastern US, jackrabbits in Australia, pigs and goats on islands in the South Pacific... the result is always the same.

 

[DiveNav]

............ and the invasive species virtually always wins. Kudzu and water hyacinth in the southeastern US, jackrabbits in Australia, pigs and goats on islands in the South Pacific.......

Humans on Earth?

 

[ReefHound]

When I start hearing reports that groupers or morays are hunting and eating live lion fish all on their own, then I'll get optimistic.

 

[Mike]

A couple of things. One, fish do not teach their young anything; fish lay eggs and go away. Two, the fish that depend on humans to feed them are fixated on the humans, not the food. And three, it is one thing for a predator fish to accept the handout of a dead lionfish from a diver; it is quite a different matter for it to take on a lionfish that is healthy and capable of defending itself.

I don't believe that feeding lionfish to other fish is going to change the feeding habits of any species. The actions of a few divers will not stand against an invasion of lionfish. This scenario has been played out many times, and the invasive species virtually always wins. Kudzu and water hyacinth in the southeastern US, jackrabbits in Australia, pigs and goats on islands in the South Pacific... the result is always the same.

I couldn't agree more with the above statements.

Groupers following me, shadowing me and almost bumping into me if I stop too fast isn't an indication of local sealife eating lion fish, it's an indication of the dive masters are feed fish which has always been and will always be a bad idea becase it does nothing but create fish who look for a handout. Agressive morays and spotted eels are an accident waiting to happen. The reports are already coming in on this forum and others of (depending upon the posters point of view) aggessive or inquisitive behavior out of character of eels. Eels going after your cameras, etc.. I witnessed the following groupers and unusual eel behavior myself in June in Cozumel. Dive masters need to stop feeding skewered lion fish (no doubt they love doing it for the 'show' to their clients and the photos and videos they take, point being it's about the show - no crab or lobster is going to kill a lion fish on it's own, feeding to them is just a show). If they really believe native species will learn to like lionfish, they simply need to drop the dead lionfish off on the reef and move on, and not feed them to a fish, thereby avoiding the problem of behavior modification that comes with hand feeding fish, and they can still move forward on this notion of creating a 'taste' for lion fish.

 

[Prop Joe]

Seems several of the local species have learned to eat the lionfish the DMs are feeding them, and even follow them in the hope of a cheap meal. they barely have them squeered before some fish wants to suck it down.
maybe they will teach their young and the lionfish issue will go back to natures control. on our dives the grouper and the eels seem to love lionfish snacks.

are other dive areas feeding the lionfish to the indigenous species? I would think this would be the answer long term to the issue.

I've been diving Cozumel a couple of times a year since the LF invasion started in 09'. I've never seen a UW predator go after a LF whether wounded or not. I've been north, far south, (everything in between) and on the seldom visited east side and never seen another creature eat the dreaded LF. I've seen DM's try to get Nurse sharks and Eels to eat the killed/wounded LF and none have ever taken them.

I just went to the Bahamas three weeks ago and the Gov't there is encouraging the local DM's to kill the LF. The LF there are much bigger, as they have been there longer than our beloved Coz. Most LF that I saw killed with the slings where in the 12-18" range, in Coz I've seen most LF under 12".
Black tips and Reef sharks are everywhere in the Bahamas and where there before the LF invasion began. I saw a shark on every dive, every day, Black Tips mostly with smaller Reef sharks and one rather large Bull on the third day. All Sharks kept their distance until a LF was speared with the sling. Once the LF was bleeding the sharks wanted to feed. There was dives when the DM used his sling to kill the LF and left it to float near the surface and was taken when the carcass was further away from us divers. If you are spear fishing you have to keep your head on a swivel or your goody bag will be gone! I've been told this is no different from years past. The only differnce is that some sharks are eating the LF. Our DM said he liked eating LF, killed them as often as he could, eating the one's he wanted and leaving the rest for the sharks.
Here is video of a Black tip eating a LF from the trident on his rather long sling:
YouTube - ‪vf31joe's Channel‬‏
Like it or not this is what is happening in the islands...

 

[mstevens]

"Squeered?"

 

[firstdive2005]

Well here's to the negative posters about us trying to do something about the issue, whether it works or not. Come up with a better idea rather than your insipid remarks. We are trying to preserve the reef AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE right now so we can keep coming back month after month, year after year.
Why not encourage us with a thanks for trying, or a 'hey here's something I thought might work plan'. We are trying to give all of us place to come to that has fish still on the reef. It is working a bit there are less lion fish in the park at rec depths. Perfect. So as an act of gratitude at those trying to help the reef survive why not encourage instead. Do you discourage the trashy group from collecting garbage on the east side and the west side of the island because the plastic just keeps on coming? Come on folks lets get together and eat them and laugh at the heroes that get stung. I got stung dont laugh at me, I'm sensitive.:mooner:

 

[Mike]

It's probably going to take a lot of money to actually find any thing that can be actually labelled a solution to the problem. A lot of money spent on researching lion fish, understanding their entire life cycle from birth until death. Right now it seems the scientific community doesn't know enough about them to be able to do anything about them.

Right now the only thing that can be done is a continuous 'weeding' of lionfish to the limits of recreational dive depths on popular dive sites. Cozumel has moved in the right directions even it was painfully slowly, but at least they moved from bagging them to allowing out-right killing of them. Probably the next step is having to admit they need to allow non-dive masters to kill them within the parks boundaries, and admit dealing with any tangental issues surrounding letting anybody kill them in the parks is far offset by the benefits of the additional help.

Last trip to Cozumel was this June, before that I was there 2 years earlier. Appeared to me there was a astronomical increase in lion fish from 2 years ago. 2 years ago I remember maybe every 3rd or 4th dive the DM would kill one, this year I'm not sure if there was a dive we didn't see one on. It's time for the Mexican officials to realize they need to let anybody that wants to kill them, kill them no matter where they are found at.

 

[ReefHound]

Well here's to the negative posters about us trying to do something about the issue, whether it works or not. Come up with a better idea rather than your insipid remarks.

I didn't mean anything negative or "insipid" towards the DMs. I just don't think it's that effective in the long term and we shouldn't breath a sigh of relief that we are "winning the battle".