Wikipedia article on "Doing It Right"

[Sat Diver]

Do you carry a hyperbaric mobiule chamber everytimes you dive ?

Yes ... more often than I carry a snorkel.

Sorry I posted, this was not meant to get into a sidebar argument.

You are right.

 

[jago]

Which DIR ? The first-one, born and raised in the WKPP ? His sons (NauiTec, UTD, ISE, TDI (Intro to DIR), DirRebreathers ...) ?

 

[rlynch]

In this context the DIR I am talking about is the orignal DIR as developed by GI3 and JJ as used in the WKPP then and today. . Who are the owners of DIR? GI3 and JJ along with the principles (Bill Mee, Dan, Todd, casey, and some others) involved in its formation as a diving system & methodology. The agiencies should have there own pages for whatever form of DIR they choose to follow. As of right now GUE is the only organization that follows the methodology as envisioned and was founded and is run by the principles of DIR (except GI3 who was never involved in GUE to my knowledge). GUE is the sponsor of the WKPP and it can be argued that its creation was to serve the needs of the WKPP, same as the gear that was created in order to explore the Woodville Karst plain tunnels.

 

[Peter Southwood]

Ok guys this snorkel discussion is ridiculous. No one is saying a snorkel isn't occasionally a useful tool in certain circumstances, but standards to not require you carry one when it wouldn't be helpful, and they do require that you stow it if carried when submerged because it can interfere with long hose donation.

Hi gsk3,
Actually I seem to remember some people saying that a snorkel is not a useful tool in any circumstances while on a scuba dive, but possibly not in this thread. However, as I am one of the people who think it is useful at times I won't argue the point. I also accept that standards do not require you to carry one when it wouldnt be useful, as I agree there too. You also say that standards require you to stow it if carried while submerged. I do not in any way dispute this point, but could you quote me the standard where this is written, as it would be handy to have the reference.
Cheers,
Peter

 

[rlynch]

there is nothing in the standards related to a snorkel in the modern GUE standards or that i am awaire in the other near DIR agiencies. This falls under specific gear for a specific operational need, I.e be a thinking diver and only add gear if absolutly nessecary.
Remember DIR is not a entiety its a methodology and concept.

 

[ucfdiver]

Hi gsk3,
Actually I seem to remember some people saying that a snorkel is not a useful tool in any circumstances while on a scuba dive, but possibly not in this thread. However, as I am one of the people who think it is useful at times I won't argue the point. I also accept that standards do not require you to carry one when it wouldnt be useful, as I agree there too. You also say that standards require you to stow it if carried while submerged. I do not in any way dispute this point, but could you quote me the standard where this is written, as it would be handy to have the reference.
Cheers,
Peter

The word snorkel doesn't appear in their training standards.

http://www.gue.com/files/Standards_and_Procedures/GUE_Standards_v62.pdf

 

[danvolker]

In reality, we might as well argue about how many angels could fit on the head of a pin, or however that goes.....

I see some shore diving areas where the type of surface swims would favor the snorkel. This is rare in the world of diving though. One example is the Pumphouse dive at the Palm Beach Inlet....Errol has done this dive with me, and would likely confirm the usefulness of a snorkel for many divers here....if he does not, it would be him deciding this should be a drift based boat dive only, and not a shore dive....It may NEVER be a GUE approved dive site as a shore dive...however, a diver trying to be DIR and finding it necessary to do this dive from the beach may have no alternatives...the dive boats don't really want to drop divers in an area this advanced AND close to the Nav channel. It is also an area difficult for a diveboat to really follow and support a diver if the diver gets into the wrong area ( too close to the rocks), or out in the main nav channel.
From the pumphouse beach entry, the snorkel allows the diver to stay off backgas in the initial 5 minutes ofthe dive as you head out in 10 to 15 feet of depth, and have to go out further than the rocks forming the point of the jetty and inlet....and then turn and follow the inside of the inlet along the jetty in 12 to 25 feet of water.....where you would go on back gas rather than snorkel. On the return trip( you went a quarter mile in, then did a 180 and headed back, low on air would mean switching to snorkel at 700 psi in the 15 foot deep area along the jetty, and watching the rocks and jetty on your side for the correct time to make your turn back north around the point, and then to not get to close to rocks you are swimming over in the surf. You would not want to do this on your back..no way! Snorkelors do this dive all the time, as do freedivers, and they do it easily....

See the structure of the Pumphouse and north jetty dive http://youtu.be/zhuffVfpiXY?hd=1 just the first 10 seconds of this video for the aerials....

See the Underwater view of why you want to be looking down with a snorkel on this dive.....http://youtu.be/nsJNxGEhCV0 keep in mind at the end of this dive, the tide is typically going out, and you will want to either have enough gas for being glued near the bottom out of the current for the turnback, or, have a snorkel to blow as much air as you need to for high speed swimming on the surface where you are picking your path by what is under you.

 

[lamont]

there is nothing in the standards related to a snorkel in the modern GUE standards or that i am awaire in the other near DIR agiencies. This falls under specific gear for a specific operational need, I.e be a thinking diver and only add gear if absolutly nessecary.
Remember DIR is not a entiety its a methodology and concept.

From Equipment Configuration | Global Underwater Explorers :

"SnorkelSnorkels are useful only while divers are at the surface; during a dive they are typically in the way and pose an entanglement threat. If snorkeling, divers should choose a snorkel with a good size tube that mounts comfortably and does not offer breathing resistance. Rather than choosing from the array of gimmicky snorkels common to the dive industry, divers should learn proper skin diving techniques."

The problem with that is it states "pose an entanglement threat" which is rather weak, while in reality the difficulty on a dive is the incompatibility with the long hose. No agency that teaches the long hose (well, technically, "primary take; non-stuffed longhose") is going to allow a snorkel to be deployed on the mask while diving -- not GUE, UTD, NAUI, TDI, etc. I can't find any useful "encyclopedic" references to that anywhere, but its just plain sense if you go out with a long hose and a snorkel and try deploying it half a dozen times and see what happens to your mask...

 

[danvolker]

From Equipment Configuration | Global Underwater Explorers :

"SnorkelSnorkels are useful only while divers are at the surface; during a dive they are typically in the way and pose an entanglement threat. If snorkeling, divers should choose a snorkel with a good size tube that mounts comfortably and does not offer breathing resistance. Rather than choosing from the array of gimmicky snorkels common to the dive industry, divers should learn proper skin diving techniques."

The problem with that is it states "pose an entanglement threat" which is rather weak, while in reality the difficulty on a dive is the incompatibility with the long hose. No agency that teaches the long hose (well, technically, "primary take; non-stuffed longhose") is going to allow a snorkel to be deployed on the mask while diving -- not GUE, UTD, NAUI, TDI, etc. I can't find any useful "encyclopedic" references to that anywhere, but its just plain sense if you go out with a long hose and a snorkel and try deploying it half a dozen times and see what happens to your mask...

When I am freediving, I have a round tube shaped snorkel holder that my snorkel slides through in an instant, so I take my normal mask for scuba, and just pop this in.....presto, I am freediving. If I needed to do a shore based scuba dive, where a snorkel may be desirable, it would be easy to pull the snorkel out of my pocket on the surface--on my back, and in 5 seconds havethe snorkel in place, then fip back over and have face in water--before any deviation from optimal course could occur.
In reality, this is really a rare event
Even though I love to freedive, I rarely feel the need for a snorkel on my dives....maybe if I was off of Catalina, and there was no good boat based support...As long as the snorkel lives in a pocket during the dives, and does not interfere with any essential gear or it's use, this should not be a problem on one of these strange dive areas where the surface swim with face down is important.

P.S.
My normal mask for scuba is a Riffe freedive mask...scuba masks are sh*t in comparison to freedive masks!!!

 

[lamont]

P.S.
My normal mask for scuba is a Riffe freedive mask...scuba masks are sh*t in comparison to freedive masks!!!

And there you go, use the right tool to get the job done...

DIR does not actually say "snorkels are the hellspawn of satan that must be purged from the surface of the Earth", it just says that you don't want one dangling on your mask when you're submerged and scubadiving... Use brain to figure out if you need one for surface activities and where to stow it while you're scubadiving...