Why would I take continuing Education classes ?

[DivemasterDennis]

The reason I ever took any continuing diver's education class was to become a better, more competent and independent diver. I selected classes to take the way Jim Laplenta selected those he would teach. I have learned to be a better diver with a broader range of competence through a variety of continuing education classes, as well as through nearly every diving experience I have had. There is one advantage to the formal class as distinct from the "independent study," and that is exposure to standards and criteria for certification at a given level or given field. I know a diver who takes every course they can, to get a patch to put on their diver's jacket. That's his deal. I am sure many of the classes were irrelevant to his actual diving, but that doesn't matter to him. I think more people are like me- they want to learn to be better divers, with a wider range of competence and therefore more independence when diving. I encourage divers to learn from every dive they do, as well as to expand their horizons through classes appropriate to their diving plans, present and future.
DivemasterDennis

 

[TSandM]

The advantages of taking continuing diving education classes can be many. For one thing, unlike just working with a mentor, you are exposed to a standardized curriculum that somebody has decided covers the most important topics or skills involved in that particular area. Working with a buddy will expose you to how that buddy does things, but may not show you any other approaches.

If you are doing the "learning by doing" approach, you don't know what you don't know. Classes will give you broader information and perhaps alert you to techniques, hazards or other considerations you hadn't thought of.

When you are trying something new, you will be supervised by someone who has some training in how to ensure diver safety while learning. There ARE considerations in where and how you position students and instructors, and under what conditions you do new skills, to minimize the likelihood of problems.

Group classes will offer you the opportunity to hear other people's questions -- they may (and often do) come up with some you hadn't considered.

All that said, shops can really pressure students into taking con ed classes for shop income, whether those classes are useful or appropriate for that student or not. And any class, taught indifferently to minimum standards, can be pretty worthless.

 

[VooDooGasMan]

See there is the trend that divers observe, and then they have to throw the cost to the equation of will they get worth while information or will they waste time and money.

To me it's simple your taught specifics and then go diving to get actual skill and mindset underwater. Unless you do this several times it might not be effective and you feel like it was not good instruction, so in sense the diver blames bad classes and not there home work(diving for that skill) and then it becomes a trait to tell the next diver there experience was not worth it.

So I have a friend that is not a great diver and only OW, he mainly collects sea food and spears fish for food. I take him out to dive and he does come back every dive, when I see him its not pretty that is for sure.

So as an educator It will be fun to see how he progresses, and can he make it to 100' + on his own or will he in fact take a AOW for a deep dive learning experience.

 

[VooDooGasMan]

Alrighty, he is a certified diver, and told me about last day of class, when I got back from a great dive at decption pass today.

I asked if he got a temp card he said no, and the instructor wants me to come to shop to pick up my cert card. and I'm not taking all these classes, so as we drank and laughed, he told me about day and said he pulled up and there were divers everywhere. The instructor said you looked pissed (rain yesterday and no divers at Keystone dive site) he said what is this listen to all these divers, I don't want to be a diver to be social, I want to get away from these type of people.

So I swirlled my scotch took a sniif and had good soothing taste and thought thats it, people get into diving to get away from everything, I do, I can not stand to be around people very long on the surface, so I go dive.

Then he said I can't believe what a joke it is, you would have to be stupid to take all these classes.


So we will see how this diver turns out.

He said I had to listen to a diver talk about his deco dive and it was this big deal, he say's are people really that F%^* up about diving deep. I said yea they have made it past your platium pro diving card, we laughed and went on about how divers are so cool and brag just before they do a 55' shore dive less than 80 YDS long.

It does not take much or long before the continueing education is put into a place that a diver never ventures into. I mean it is hard for me to see as I never went through this phase of diving.

I often wonder how people can die diving, It is so easy to do and yet so many die. so I'm pretty concearned that how the whole class stucture has made people run from actually learning how to dive. Which brings up does the goverment not do studies cause we have to many people and diving is a great way to control population?

 

[Bob DBF]

Since the thread is slow and it's only us guys talking about the reasons for taking continuing SCUBA education, I'll tell you a story.

My personal history with SCUBA has, for the large majority, been self taught. I am not saying it's the best way but it worked for me because I like reading and diving. Except for a couple of periods, my diving finances have been slim so the money went into fills and decent gear. I am no example of a great diver, but I am competent and have managed to dive for almost 50 years under a variety of conditions and enjoy it to this day. I also, for a shorter timeframe, enjoy freediveing for abalone and fish.

My daughter was in college and took up diving; my take was she didn't want to dive around me, and the crazies I dove with, while she was growing up. She dropped college for work and continued to dive 'cause she loved it, what's not to love in the Channel Islands off Santa Barbara. In our discussions I found that she had not finished her advanced class because she would rather go diving. She also went on about wanting to be a DiveCon, and says I, "I could be a Master Scuba Diver way before you ever get your DM ticket".

I had taken a nitrox class prior to this wager and since the instructor seemed ok and was local, I continued to take classes from him. The rescue class was good, but the rest, although taught to standards (or more), seemed to be rather superficial. I must admit I was expecting more but, then again, I had been diving for some time and the classes were covering diving I had been doing for years.

The things that I did notice was that it is a different diver today than it was years ago, and the focus of dive instructors is to certify as many divers as possible and lead them on the path of further education. Part of this was due to the reduction of time and skills of the OW diver, which seemed to me to be counterproductive. It also made me mention the bet to my daughter on a regular basis so that she would learn the skills that were commonplace 30 years ago.

Advanced could have been a very useful training if there was a class component even half what the pre-dive briefing and dive took. The pre-dive briefing would have been even shorter if I wasn’t around.

Deep was this side of a joke, 4 dives of 97’, 104’, 108’, and 115’. Although a demonstration of impairment was included, the issues of gas planning, mitigating narcosis and how to approach dealing with continued deep diving were not covered in the depth I believe is necessary. It may be the instructor, who is now also teaching, and selling PADI TEC, or it could be the lesson plan, as the book was of minimal help.

Not to say I didn’t pick up anything, there were some things that I wouldn’t have learned without the class, but if money was tight I would have passed on the class. I did find a guy I like to do the drive to the coast with and buddy with if we are not hunting.

I won the bet. The good news is the kid is now a DivCon and crossover PADI DM, went back to school on her own dime for Marine Biology, is now attending University in England, and if all goes well should pick up her Scientific Diver ticket on this class research trip to Indonesia, as we speak. So with that, and the Intro to Solo she got with me, I’m not so worried about her diving skills any more.

I might take a class again but since my training objective is met, it may be awhile before I feel the need.

Now if this weather would back off I could go diving.


Bob
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The most important thing to plan when solo diving is to make sure that you are not diving with an idiot. Dsix36

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

First off, you have to ask yourself why you'd want to take a particular class. What do you expect to get out of it? And will the class in question gain you what you want?

I've seen many complaints here on ScubaBoard and elsewhere about the quality of a class ... or that the poster came out of the class feeling like they didn't learn anything. Sometimes it's because it was a poorly taught class ... but just as often, based on what I read, it's because the class was never really designed to gain the person what they were looking for.

Sometimes people get side-tracked by the name of the class. For example, "Advanced Open Water" doesn't make you an advanced diver ... and depending on how the class it taught, it may provide you with little more than you'd get from hiring a dive guide to take you on a few dives in different types of conditions. Lots of people take a "Divemaster" class expecting it to help them improve their diving skills ... when in fact the focus of the course is not diving skills at all, but rather leadership skills ... and the person taking the class may have been better served by taking a skills workshop, one or more specialty classes, or something like "Intro to Tech" ... which are designed to help you improve your fundamental diving skills.

And then there are those who take a class for access to a wider range of dive sites. Again, AOW comes immediately to mind ... one of the most significant reasons for taking the class is because you want access to deeper dive sites. Unfortunately, the class sometimes doesn't prepare you well to do those dives, and instead only gives you a "taste" of what such dives are like.

For those with access to dive clubs and mentorship programs, that is often a better route to skills development. But choosing a mentor has its own risks, as some are better than others, and a mentor won't always steer you in a prudent direction ... or may introduce you to bad habits that will ultimately inhibit your development. A skilled instructor can watch you dive, evaluate your strengths and weaknesses, and provide both an explanation and demonstration for how to improve a given skill or skill set in such a way that lends itself to developing a solid foundation of skills that you can build on as your experience level increases and your goals change.

It's true that you don't know what you don't know ... and choosing an instructor can sometimes be a crap shoot. But there are resources that avail themselves to even the inexperienced diver ... forums and recommendations from more experienced divers is often a great way to find out which instructors are worthwhile and which are not. But as an inexperienced diver, you also need to approach any sales pitch for a continuing education class with a wary eye ... because ultimately it's like buying any other product, it needs to be compatible with the reasons why you'd consider buying it in the first place. Dive shops and instructors are very good at selling continuing education ... often whether or not it is right for you ... because that's how they stay in business. So you cannot really rely on their recommendation ... because it's often based not on what's best for you, but what's best for them.

For those considering continuing education, I'd recommend the following:

- Ask yourself why you want to take the class. Write down a series of objectives, and think about them for a while. Ask yourself if this is really what you want to get out of the class, and adjust your list according to your needs.
- Choose a class that advertises itself as meeting your objectives. But don't sign up for the class until you've also interviewed the instructor. Voice your objectives to the instructor. Ask how the class curriculum will help you meet them. If the instructor's answers sound compatible with your needs, then consider that this might be the right class for you ... but don't sign up yet.
- If possible, talk to others who have taken a class with this instructor to find out if they live up to what they advertise for the class they're offering.
- Consider alternatives ... are there workshops, or other classes available that may better suit your needs? Are there mentorship programs available that can help you achieve your goals?
- Before signing up for a class, always ask what the total cost of the class will be. Often there are "hidden" costs, such as required equipment, or fees that aren't factored into the advertised price.
- Weigh the alternatives, and decide according to the one that best suits your goals.

This may seem like a bit of work ... and it is ... but it will help you avoid classes that waste your time, effort, and money ... and better address your goals as a developing diver.

In the end, you are the one purchasing the service ... it's up to you to take the steps to choose where and how you spend your money. Continuing education can be a great investment or a complete waste of time ... and a lot of things in between. Putting a little effort into researching what your buying before you buy it can make a big difference as to what you get out of it ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[wtcreaux]

The 'Deep Diver' course...if taught as per the minimum requirements... does little to truly prepare or educate a diver for that activity, when compared to self-teaching. The main difference is that a formal course integrates supervision and a duty-of-care for the student. In contrast, a non-professional mentor does not have that formal duty-of-care and the self-taught diver doesn't have the 'expert' supervision.

It's easy to overlook the issues of supervision and duty-of-care, when only ascertaining the value of a course on the basis of its developmental outcome.

My daughter took the Deep Diver course in provo (T&C). The instructor opened her eyes......she experienced some narcosis......did some deco time (wasn't required from the dive but the instructor wanted her to understand in case needed).....and did some other drills I wouldn't have thought of......all in all, a good experience for her

 

[VooDooGasMan]

WTC not that I,m against breaking the rules but not sure what class your daughter did but I would suppose that deco is not allowed. also I think it should be just to have that pressure of gas planning to have enough for deco obligation.

Bob Dbf I agree on focus of dive Inst and even dive shop.

What has transpired now is this guy is an OW diver and was going to buy this drysuit that fit him (very big fella). So after my dive yesterday I stopped by for a happy hour, and asked if he got the drysuit and BCD. Said they would let him use it, now he feels taken as he wants to dive this weekend and cannot, by end of discussion I think he will buy online.

This is the deal He needs to be taught an advanced class, and needs dives to gain experience, so now I would say that he will stray from there over a petty reason of not being able to buy the gear that would fit him.
It is kinda like this, you can herd them in if you want but once a you sour them it is a no win situation.

I tried with all my experience to make this be a customer, go through classes, buy gear that works for them and also be able to upgrade and have trust in a divers opinion. He knows really no other divers that dive here in our waters.

 

[wtcreaux]

WTC not that I,m against breaking the rules but not sure what class your daughter did but I would suppose that deco is not allowed. also I think it should be just to have that pressure of gas planning to have enough for deco obligation.

.

My bad....they didn't actually go into deco......just did a "deco stop" (maybe should use another term??) so she would know how to do she ever found herself having to do such........I couldn't figure out how to edit my post........

 

[BluewaterSail]

I don't take classes to learn facts. I can read books and search the web in the comfort of my home much more conveniently.

I take classes to have a coach. I could picture someone with lots of advanced buddies who act as mentors, who would want to "do what they do". Then I probably would only take classes if I needed a cert for something that I wanted to do. But given that I don't have that army of mentor-buddies, classes keep me on the path.