Why, when & where do we do a checkout dive?

[IBjones]

IB, I agree with all that for sure. But as I think others have said, it's their boat. Check ahead of time to find a taxi one (if that's possible in the location you want to dive). On my one tropical trip (so far) I've come up with 2 or 3 more questions to ask on the internet should I take another trip.

I know. I don't blame them. I blame the lawyers. I know if they don't do their "check out dive" and Joe Diver drowns on their boat the lawyers will be all over them by sundown.

I just find the 19 year old "just-got-my-dive-instructor-certification-last-week, so-I-betta-get-my-respek" kid wanting to see me do a mask clear and "take out your reg and put it back in" a bit academic. I've gone from 12 lbs to 22 lbs of lead over the last 19 years so I damned sure know about buoyancy.

For those kids, I like to approach the rail with my mask on upside down when we do my checkout dive.

 

[Freewillow]

From my experience, I have been through dozens of check out dives and it was not that bad. Usually the site is well protected and quite shallow: no wall, maximum depth 60 feet under the boat and 90 feet on the dive site. Never had to do a mask clearing or anything like that. 50% of the time - on LOB - every diver is asked to deploy a DSMB close to the boat at the end of the dive. I find this VERY useful and quite frequently very entertaining

 

[Diver0001]

I did a check-out dive just last night. I've been diving for 32 years and just bought my 4th drysuit. With a major change like that I want to give it a "test drive" before doing anything major.

The dive lasted 16 minutes, I was soaking wet but I got a good sense of what was wrong. On the up side it dives *wonderfully* so once I get the kinks worked out I'll be a very happy camper.

I do the same whenever I dive somewhere new. On my last trip to Egypt I was using unfamiliar gear so we made our first dive shallow and fairly short (I called it "puddle stomping") to see if there were any things that needed adjusting. There were. I adjusted them and then we started diving "for real".

Why people don't do this as a matter of course when they change things in their configuration or when they dive somewhere completely new is utterly beyond me.

R..

 

[Neilwood]

I did a check-out dive just last night. I've been diving for 32 years and just bought my 4th drysuit. With a major change like that I want to give it a "test drive" before doing anything major.

The dive lasted 16 minutes, I was soaking wet but I got a good sense of what was wrong. On the up side it dives *wonderfully* so once I get the kinks worked out I'll be a very happy camper.

I do the same whenever I dive somewhere new. On my last trip to Egypt I was using unfamiliar gear so we made our first dive shallow and fairly short (I called it "puddle stomping") to see if there were any things that needed adjusting. There were. I adjusted them and then we started diving "for real".

Why people don't do this as a matter of course when they change things in their configuration or when they dive somewhere completely new is utterly beyond me.

R..

Agreed - especially diving somewhere unfamiliar in different gear.

Did a Red Sea trip last year - my weighting was pretty good at home (North Sea diving in general) but moving to the Red Sea involved a change of wetsuit (7mm to 3mm) and also a change to Ali cylinders as opposed to steels. Combination of these meant my weighting was way off the norm. Quick check dive and I was good to go.

 

[IBjones]

I can see the point with new gear. I did a check out dive when I got my new BCD. But I don't need to demonstrate to some instructor that I know how to dive with my new BC. I also do one at the beginning of each spring to make sure my weight hasn't changed over the winter.

There's just something ridiculous when a PADI Master Scuba Diver has to demonstrate a mask clear, or for that point deploying a SMB. Even the government isn't that silly. When I get a new truck I don't have to go re-take the exam and get a new license. I spent a year in Iraq. When I came home I didn't have to go get a new DL just because I hadn't driven in a year. My valid PADI card should indicate I know ho to do all that crap. If a PADI MSD is walking around with a PADI MSD cert card in his wallet and can't do a mask clear, or can't tell when he has too much or not enough weight, then we've got bigger problems in the scuba sport. I damned sure don't want some RD or divemaster/instructor bothering to give me first aid or rescue breaths if PADI's certs are that half-assed.

The fact that "your cert card is a worthless POS until you prove to me you can do it" devalues his instructor card to zero also. They were both issued by the same agency.

A cert is supposed to mean something. If it doesn't and it's just so PADI can get a few bucks for another course fee and sell you a plastic card for forty bucks (that I can buy at Staples for $13 per 500) then the diving sport is doomed.

I'd tell that instructor that my PADI MSD card is JUST AS VALID as his PADI instructor card. If mine needs "verifying in his presence" then his needs it also. We can certainly schedule a time for him to gear up and demonstrate all his skills to my satisfaction. (I'll pay for my check out dive if he'll pay for his check out dive).

I decided that PADI instructors and dive shops were full of crap when I took my AquaLung BCD to them to replace the inflator hose due to the manufacturer safety recall and their "certified", "professional", "expert", "AquaLung Authorized" repair guy told me to "just ignore the manufacturer safety recall and dive with it anyway. If the inflator button gets stuck, you can disconnect the inflator hose." The next time I'm on their charter and they start with the "diver safety" BS, I'm liable to go off on them.

 

[redacted]

I can see the point with new gear. I did a check out dive when I got my new BCD. But I don't need to demonstrate to some instructor that I know how to dive with my new BC. I also do one at the beginning of each spring to make sure my weight hasn't changed over the winter.

There's just something ridiculous when a PADI Master Scuba Diver has to demonstrate a mask clear, or for that point deploying a SMB. Even the government isn't that silly. When I get a new truck I don't have to go re-take the exam and get a new license. I spent a year in Iraq. When I came home I didn't have to go get a new DL just because I hadn't driven in a year. My valid PADI card should indicate I know ho to do all that crap. If a PADI MSD is walking around with a PADI MSD cert card in his wallet and can't do a mask clear, or can't tell when he has too much or not enough weight, then we've got bigger problems in the scuba sport. I damned sure don't want some RD or divemaster/instructor bothering to give me first aid or rescue breaths if PADI's certs are that half-assed.

The fact that "your cert card is a worthless POS until you prove to me you can do it" devalues his instructor card to zero also. They were both issued by the same agency.

A cert is supposed to mean something. If it doesn't and it's just so PADI can get a few bucks for another course fee and sell you a plastic card for forty bucks (that I can buy at Staples for $13 per 500) then the diving sport is doomed.

I'd tell that instructor that my PADI MSD card is JUST AS VALID as his PADI instructor card. If mine needs "verifying in his presence" then his needs it also. We can certainly schedule a time for him to gear up and demonstrate all his skills to my satisfaction. (I'll pay for my check out dive if he'll pay for his check out dive).

I decided that PADI instructors and dive shops were full of crap when I took my AquaLung BCD to them to replace the inflator hose due to the manufacturer safety recall and their "certified", "professional", "expert", "AquaLung Authorized" repair guy told me to "just ignore the manufacturer safety recall and dive with it anyway. If the inflator button gets stuck, you can disconnect the inflator hose." The next time I'm on their charter and they start with the "diver safety" BS, I'm liable to go off on them.

A check-out dive is not the only way to seperate the whack-a-doos who may be a problem from the competent divers; regardless of the card they may carry

 

[Steelyeyes]

I was on a dive earlier this month. Another diver had 200 logged dives, mostly in the Caribbean. The first dive off of the boat the diver spent a significant amount of time swimming head down in a circle trying to descend. The DM swam up, released the air from the diver's BCD, and escorted him down the group. That would have not been fun had we been starting a drift dive.

 

[TMHeimer]

In pointing out the obvious, there are two separate discussions:
--when/where/what a diver should do on his own as a checkout in order to be safe.
--same, but regarding mandatory checkouts by dive ops so THEY feel you are safe and for whatere reasons
that makes you feel safe or ticks you off.

 

[Neilwood]

I can see the point with new gear. I did a check out dive when I got my new BCD. But I don't need to demonstrate to some instructor that I know how to dive with my new BC. I also do one at the beginning of each spring to make sure my weight hasn't changed over the winter.

There's just something ridiculous when a PADI Master Scuba Diver has to demonstrate a mask clear, or for that point deploying a SMB. Even the government isn't that silly. When I get a new truck I don't have to go re-take the exam and get a new license. I spent a year in Iraq. When I came home I didn't have to go get a new DL just because I hadn't driven in a year. My valid PADI card should indicate I know ho to do all that crap. If a PADI MSD is walking around with a PADI MSD cert card in his wallet and can't do a mask clear, or can't tell when he has too much or not enough weight, then we've got bigger problems in the scuba sport. I damned sure don't want some RD or divemaster/instructor bothering to give me first aid or rescue breaths if PADI's certs are that half-assed.

The fact that "your cert card is a worthless POS until you prove to me you can do it" devalues his instructor card to zero also. They were both issued by the same agency.

A cert is supposed to mean something. If it doesn't and it's just so PADI can get a few bucks for another course fee and sell you a plastic card for forty bucks (that I can buy at Staples for $13 per 500) then the diving sport is doomed.

I'd tell that instructor that my PADI MSD card is JUST AS VALID as his PADI instructor card. If mine needs "verifying in his presence" then his needs it also. We can certainly schedule a time for him to gear up and demonstrate all his skills to my satisfaction. (I'll pay for my check out dive if he'll pay for his check out dive).

I decided that PADI instructors and dive shops were full of crap when I took my AquaLung BCD to them to replace the inflator hose due to the manufacturer safety recall and their "certified", "professional", "expert", "AquaLung Authorized" repair guy told me to "just ignore the manufacturer safety recall and dive with it anyway. If the inflator button gets stuck, you can disconnect the inflator hose." The next time I'm on their charter and they start with the "diver safety" BS, I'm liable to go off on them.

Taking your example with the MSD card - all the MSD card guarantees is that you have completed 50 dives, have rescue training and have earned 5 specialities. It does not guarantee a diver is currently competent (the same diver might not have been near scuba gear never mind using it in the water for a number of years). Yes he should know his skills/drills but that is no guarantee that he does actually keep them up to date and can execute them properly and safely or that he is in control in the water (it is easily possible to get MSD with poor buoyancy control and trim).

Would you guarantee that a diver who passed OW in year 1, did AOW in year 3 , did rescue a couple of years after that and did a speciality once a year (total of 10 years) with 5 dives a year (including the training dives) would be a competent diver? There is nothing in the MSD requirements AFAIK as to how quickly it is done.

With regards to driving, I am quite sure that a lot of driving agencies would suggest a reintroduction to driving after an extended break from it with either a refresher with an instructor or a gentle drive round a parking lot before tackling heavy traffic or busy highways.

 

[IBjones]

Is there a "guarantee" that the instructor who took the IE exam 10 years ago and was issued a ICS number 10 years ago has instructed in the last year? Again, the guy wanting me to show him my skills has a card issued by the same agency I do. If my C card is not-so-valid, then ALL C cards are not-so-valid.

We have several students going thru the V.A. program at the dive shop right now to become instrucotrs. They have to get their minimum dives, so they are cramming them all in as fast as they can. Yeah I have a lot of confidence in an "instructor" who does four dives per day in the 20 foot water beside the bridge for a month to get his required 100 dives, then demands I show him my 19 years worth of wreck diving skills for the privilege of diving with him. In the Army, there's a 2nd Lieutenant that comes along just out of OCS every now and then who wants to make sure the First Sgt knows he outranks him. The result is always the same and it's fun to watch.

PADI and the recreational dive industry have but one goal on their mind: To get the money out of your pocket.

And we don't have mandatory "driving schools" in the U.S. like you guys do in Europe. I go to the DMV and take a written test, and I take a very brief hands-on driving test around the block, and if I pass both, I get a license. In fact, The State of North Carolina gives you a cheat book to study with all the answers in it and a "practice test". LOL

And taking a "Gentle drive around the parking lot" damned sure doesn't mean I'm ready for the 5pm traffic on the Durham Freeway coming out of Raleigh on a weekday. Not anymore than requiring a neurosurgeon to demonstrate he can give a flu shot proves he's ready to do brain stem surgery.

When does that PADI C card become "permanent and forever"? When you go from RD to DM? When you go to OW Instructor? AOW Instructor? DEMP Instructor? Since you claim my PADI MSD C card is just a novelty, what PADI level do I need to get before the PADI card moves from the novelty stage to the "I'm Scuba God" stage? Is it when I take the IE exam or am issued an IDCS number?

Does these new graduates who did 4 fifteen minute dives under the bridge in 20 feet of water count for more experience than my 1 dive to 120 feet on a wreck for 30 minutes? They can say they have four dives and I only have one, does that make them a more qualified diver?