Why the dislike of air integrated computers?

[scubadada]

Generally, at least for an open water diver, failure of any type of high pressure device is not a big deal, from an air loss stand point because all modern regulators have a restrictor orifice on the HP ports. Yes it will leak and no it will not cause a problem that would result in rapid air loss. A LP hose/device is a different animal and can result in total loss of air within three minutes.

I check my spg maybe three or four times in a dive, hardly every few minutes and I do not need to unclip it, I just glance down, even with my worsening eyesight I need only see the position of the needle, not actually read a number, thus the superiority of all analog readouts over digital, they provide relative information over the passage of time. Yes, you can break an spg if you try hard enough and often they will continue to work even after the glass is broken.

Like I said, the AI stuff appeals to a certain set of the diver population, if it is what you like and enjoy, by all means get one and use it. As a minimalist, I would never have one.

N

Some people feel strongly, one way or the other, that's OK

As I said

 

[tbone1004]

Nice analysis, thanks

I'm still holding out that Shearwater will recognize the significant market for an AI Petrel 3. The Seabear H3 is a very good looking computer, maybe the AI will be less than you think, I would hope the $1200s. In the meantime, my VT3 is doing fine and I can wait and see.

The Oceanic VT 4.1 is available with transmitter and download cord for $700. It has an easy to read screen, compass, and runs DSAT and Buhlmann ZHL-16C. Of course, rumor has it that it will be discontinued (in favor of the VTX?). I'm sure Oceanic will support it.

I'm sure most of us are glad we have so many choices

it will be a long time before you get what you are after. Shearwater has proven they need a reason to change, the Predator was changed to Petrel due to lack of screen availability, Petrel will be around for quite a while. WRT Seabear, the H3 is currently around a grand and they have said the transmitters will be priced similar to those on the market, so unlikely to see it below $1400 when it comes out unless it is in a new package, but even then they are usually not marked down much at all.

The VT 4.1 is still the casio style screen though which while not a hard and fast no-go for technical diving, in cave diving it is a colossal PITA because now checking your gauge is a two-handed operation due to either having to hit the backlight button, or shine a light on it.

 

[phoenix31tt]

If it's wireless as long as you have a backup I don't see the big deal having it. If it's not wireless i don't see the big deal having it. Where i would see the big deal is when a diver relies on the "alarms" to indicate turn pressure so they get out of the habit of actually checking their air.

I myself have seen divers with AI wireless transmitters struggling to sync before dives. I don't see the benefits of having one IF it's that amount of hassle and i definitely don't see the benefits being worthy of the current costs for them

 

[scubadada]

it will be a long time before you get what you are after. Shearwater has proven they need a reason to change, the Predator was changed to Petrel due to lack of screen availability, Petrel will be around for quite a while. WRT Seabear, the H3 is currently around a grand and they have said the transmitters will be priced similar to those on the market, so unlikely to see it below $1400 when it comes out unless it is in a new package, but even then they are usually not marked down much at all.

The VT 4.1 is still the casio style screen though which while not a hard and fast no-go for technical diving, in cave diving it is a colossal PITA because now checking your gauge is a two-handed operation due to either having to hit the backlight button, or shine a light on it.

Most of us are mainly recreational divers and I think the OP asked the question in that realm. The real problem with technical divers is that they always revert to cave or technical wreck diving scenarios that do not apply to the intended use. MOST of us are not going to progress along the training pathway to include these activities. Answers to queries should reflect this reality.

The VT 4.1 is an extremely easy to read "casio style" display. I bought an out of box unit for my son from a friend for $500 and dived it myself. It's an improvement, in many ways, over my VT3. The narrow view of some SB respondents does not always benefit the average diver. The average diver, often does not have the background to separate the wheat from the chafe. It is our responsibility to help them.

 

[tbone1004]

it is, but there is a reason we dive what we dive. There is a huge difference in advocating AI as a better alternative and worth spending the money, which is wrong. There is no reason to choose AI over an SPG other than "because I can", or "because I want to". That's fine, if you can justify it that way, good for you, but there is no way to logically argue for AI due to the cost and overall inferior computer design when compared to a Petrel. That's just a hard fact. IF you deem AI worth the cost, then there are no valid arguments against them due to reliability etc, for recreational divers I frankly don't see the point in an extra SPG on the rig all the time, just having one in the save a dive kit is good enough in my opinion. Reliability on the new transmitter designs seems to be much better on the syncing front, but you will never have an argument other than "because I want to" that will actually hold any validity. It's a perfectly acceptable reason, but that's the only one. The same logic applies to non-necklaced octo's, Safe Seconds, jacket BC's, and split fins. None of them have any actual justification over a traditional octopus, bp/w, and paddle fins other than "because I want to". None of them are going to kill you, but none have any actual benefits that would allow a logical argument for them.

 

[The Chairman]

I dive my sidemount with hoseless AI. Oceanic makes this easy to do, and I use two of their PDCs to track both transmitters. I have thought about setting them left and right, but I like switching sensors from one tank to the other when I switch regs. I've done about twenty dives so far, and I like it. The tanks are cleaner and it's easier to check gas. I do have button gauges on the top, but they are probably going to be history soon.

 

[ronscuba]

...... but you will never have an argument other than "because I want to" that will actually hold any validity. It's a perfectly acceptable reason, but that's the only one. The same logic applies to non-necklaced octo's, Safe Seconds, jacket BC's, and split fins. None of them have any actual justification over a traditional octopus, bp/w, and paddle fins other than "because I want to". None of them are going to kill you, but none have any actual benefits that would allow a logical argument for them.

Nice post tbone. Informative, valid points of view, accurate.

I'm very much a scientific analytical person. However, as I've gotten older I've become more philosophical.

Recreational... for fun, done for enjoyment, easier and less dangerous than technical. Style appeal, fitting in by have similar equipment to other recreational divers, the "cool" factor of equipment X. No scientific validity that equipment is better, but they can be factors that affect someones fun and enjoyment.

Why did I buy such and such ? Because I want to, it makes me feel good, I like it. Perhaps that doesn't have a place in the technical dive world, but I think it very much does fit in recreational diving and many other parts of life.

I am a recreational diver. If you ever saw me and my dive equipment, I use a mish mosh of technical and recreational gear.

What is the difference between a split fin, a hinge paddle fin, a soft flexible paddle fin ? I started a separate discussion in the fin section on flexible vs. stiff fins.

 

[RJP]

As a kool-aid drinking, relatively DIR tech diver I'll chime in and tell you what I think of wireless AI computers...

They are great!

My Suunto Vytec DS has been with me on 997 dives so far. The transmitter has been with me for all of them with the exception of a handful of cave training dives.

The Vytec has failed to sync with the transmitter twice - two dives - in ten years. One time was my fault, as I was rushing to get in the water and didn't give it a chance to sync before jumping in. The other time was user error of the woman standing next to me on a boat, who mistakenly synced her computer to my transmitter before realizing she had turned on the wrong tank. The first time I just used my SPG (which I always have on the left post when diving doubles, transmitter on the right.) The second time I turned the tank off, depressurized it, turned the tank back on, and my computer synced.

Extra failure point? Sure... sounds good.
Easy enough to unclip and check SPG instead? You bet, except for the frequent times when it's not easy.
Finicky? I've had mask straps give me more trouble.
Expensive? I didn't get into diving to save money.

If I should ever die while diving and the cause of my death is traced back to my transmitter failing... you all have permission to come to my funeral and laugh out loud the whole time.

 

[KevinNM]

I've had two cases where my 2003 Vytec and transmitter had not synched. One was where I let it time out and didn't check it prior to getting in the water and the process to force it to resynch isn't exactly intuitive. The other was where the boat gave me 5 or so tanks with 500 or so PSI left in a row (I'm sure the boat crew found it was a lot quicker to not fill half the tanks on the boat...) and that got the computer and transmitter all confused.

The newer suunto transmitters and vyper are easier to use, as they don't do the random code change bit every dive.

But I understand why I'm being pushed to not use the AI display, and I pulled the transmitter when I found it was preventing me from reaching the tank valve.

 

[scubadada]

it is, but there is a reason we dive what we dive. There is a huge difference in advocating AI as a better alternative and worth spending the money, which is wrong. There is no reason to choose AI over an SPG other than "because I can", or "because I want to". That's fine, if you can justify it that way, good for you, but there is no way to logically argue for AI due to the cost and overall inferior computer design when compared to a Petrel. That's just a hard fact. IF you deem AI worth the cost, then there are no valid arguments against them due to reliability etc, for recreational divers I frankly don't see the point in an extra SPG on the rig all the time, just having one in the save a dive kit is good enough in my opinion. Reliability on the new transmitter designs seems to be much better on the syncing front, but you will never have an argument other than "because I want to" that will actually hold any validity. It's a perfectly acceptable reason, but that's the only one. The same logic applies to non-necklaced octo's, Safe Seconds, jacket BC's, and split fins. None of them have any actual justification over a traditional octopus, bp/w, and paddle fins other than "because I want to". None of them are going to kill you, but none have any actual benefits that would allow a logical argument for them.

Extremely good example of the totally inflexible mindset of many of the "technical" divers vs. recreational divers. This is not a productive, beneficial relationship. Personally, I'd be glad to dive with anyone here, would be an interesting, educational experience. What we do is perfect, what you do is, by definition, inferior, this is not an acceptable philosophy. This is one of the most disagreeable aspects of SB and does nobody a favor.

---------- Post added July 2nd, 2015 at 01:40 PM ----------

I dive my sidemount with hoseless AI. Oceanic makes this easy to do, and I use two of their PDCs to track both transmitters. I have thought about setting them left and right, but I like switching sensors from one tank to the other when I switch regs. I've done about twenty dives so far, and I like it. The tanks are cleaner and it's easier to check gas. I do have button gauges on the top, but they are probably going to be history soon.

Thanks Pete, the board is a harsh place.