Why should I support my LDS?

[MXGratefulDiver]

I dive with ceilings both hard and soft regularly... And I would take my business elsewhere if the guy that's selling me the scuba gear didn't consider it "life support."

Depends on which gear you're talking about. A BCD failure won't usually result in a fatality if the diver simply remains calm, thinks through the problem, and implements a backup solution. A failure of exposure equipment won't kill you except under the most extreme of circumstances ... I had a pretty bad suit flood on a 200' dive recently, on a 90-minute dive in 47 degree water. It was uncomfortable ... but hardly life-threatening.

Even a regulator failure is recoverable if you either have a (proper) buddy or a redundant air source.

Life support is as much about anticipating and preparing for a failure as it is about the equipment itself.

They're supposed to be teaching that concept in OW classes ... the proverbial "what if" ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[SkimFisher]

Really?

Even if I sling a pair of rollerblades for back-up?

 

[SkimFisher]

The Segway: It is life support. You don't want to buy this from the cheapest bidder whom you don't even know and who live on the other side of the world. You must buy this from the local dealer who only has you safety and best interests at heart. Unfortunately, such concern and convenience don't come cheaply, you know the back room and lights and all; but you don't mind because how much is your life worth.

...and I want to use whatever LDS your using. I've got some real snakes near me. The only thing they're looking out for is their bottom line.

For every good LDS out there there are at least two bad ones.

I think it's a stretch to assume that any manufacturer - name brand or otherwise - designs any component to fail.

 

[Deep South Divers]

Depends on which gear you're talking about.

Ah, yes... I see y'all's point now. I was thinking, "regulator." If someone leaned over the counter a me and told me that my 3 mil wetsuit was "life support" on an 80* dive in the tropics, I'd probably look at him a little funny, too.

Certainly our differences in opinion (and the more we discuss it, the more it sounds like there isn't one) is more a matter of context and "criticality" as I was mentioning on the last page, and not so much a difference in dive philosophies or a difference in the way that we purchase gear.

 

[Deep South Divers]

...and I want to use whatever LDS your using. I've got some real snakes near me. The only thing they're looking out for is their bottom line.

For every good LDS out there there are at least two bad ones.

+1.

I know of probably three or four LDSs here in the Southeast that are good... The vast majority of them I completely avoid - they're just not worth the frustration.

 

[TechBlue]

Depends on which gear you're talking about. A BCD failure won't usually result in a fatality if the diver simply remains calm, thinks through the problem, and implements a backup solution. A failure of exposure equipment won't kill you except under the most extreme of circumstances ... I had a pretty bad suit flood on a 200' dive recently, on a 90-minute dive in 47 degree water. It was uncomfortable ... but hardly life-threatening.

Even a regulator failure is recoverable if you either have a (proper) buddy or a redundant air source.

Life support is as much about anticipating and preparing for a failure as it is about the equipment itself.

They're supposed to be teaching that concept in OW classes ... the proverbial "what if" ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

The problem is regardless of what may or may not be taught in the OW class many new divers do not have the time or skills in the water to deal with most equipment failures. As you say "usually" will not result in a fatatlity which also by definition means that it may. What if's may be discusssed and even demonstrated but new divers are at the beginning of their learning curve.

The classic example is an out of air situation, new divers tend to go for the reg they see working, normally in somebody elses mouth and that is what they go for, no signals, no pat on the arm they just swim up and grab it, and with two new divers you normally end up with a tug of war for that reg. Now we know that air sharing is taught to everybody but when things go pear shaped survival instincts for number one kick in. So to me that means that scuba equipment is life support and I have never used life support as a sales tool.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

The problem is regardless of what may or may not be taught in the OW class many new divers do not have the time or skills in the water to deal with most equipment failures. As you say "usually" will not result in a fatatlity which also by definition means that it may. What if's may be discusssed and even demonstrated but new divers are at the beginning of their learning curve.

The classic example is an out of air situation, new divers tend to go for the reg they see working, normally in somebody elses mouth and that is what they go for, no signals, no pat on the arm they just swim up and grab it, and with two new divers you normally end up with a tug of war for that reg. Now we know that air sharing is taught to everybody but when things go pear shaped survival instincts for number one kick in. So to me that means that scuba equipment is life support and I have never used life support as a sales tool.

What you describe is not an equipment issue, it's a training issue. If you are putting divers in the water who cannot be trusted to respond to even the minimal levels that their OW curriculum trains them, then perhaps you are passing those divers out of your class prematurely. Might be time to consider spending more time developing the basic skills and in-water comfort before you hand those folks a C-card.

No amount of gear will make up for a lack of adequate training and skill development.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[vladimir]

The classic example is an out of air situation, new divers tend to go for the reg they see working, normally in somebody elses mouth and that is what they go for, no signals, no pat on the arm they just swim up and grab it, and with two new divers you normally end up with a tug of war for that reg.

Normally? How often do you see out-of-air situations? How many tug-of-wars have you witnessed? I am a little skeptical--and concerned--that you have a sample size that allows you to define a norm.

 

[Web Monkey]

Normally? How often do you see out-of-air situations? How many tug-of-wars have you witnessed? I am a little skeptical--and concerned--that you have a sample size that allows you to define a norm.

You should hang out in the Caribbean watching vacation divers for a while. You'll get to see this at least once every other day if you're with the right crowd.

Terry

 

[TechBlue]

Depends on which gear you're talking about. A BCD failure won't usually result in a fatality if the diver simply remains calm, thinks through the problem, and implements a backup solution. A failure of exposure equipment won't kill you except under the most extreme of circumstances ... I had a pretty bad suit flood on a 200' dive recently, on a 90-minute dive in 47 degree water. It was uncomfortable ... but hardly life-threatening.

Even a regulator failure is recoverable if you either have a (proper) buddy or a redundant air source.

Life support is as much about anticipating and preparing for a failure as it is about the equipment itself.

They're supposed to be teaching that concept in OW classes ... the proverbial "what if" ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

What you describe is not an equipment issue, it's a training issue. If you are putting divers in the water who cannot be trusted to respond to even the minimal levels that their OW curriculum trains them, then perhaps you are passing those divers out of your class prematurely. Might be time to consider spending more time developing the basic skills and in-water comfort before you hand those folks a C-card.

No amount of gear will make up for a lack of adequate training and skill development.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Now you are getting personal and you are talking out of context.