Why not Fundies?

[Diver Dennis]

Well then...don't listen to what I am saying because I'm an idiot and not a mind reader.

I'm glad you said that...

 

[TheRedHead]

I think Stephen Ash is spot on. Most divers don't care if they make a butt-first descent as long as they eventually get to tool around the reef and get back in the boat safely (usually thanks to a DM herding them).

I would speculate that many of the people interested in taking the class have an interest in technical diving, even if they don't initially admit it to themselves.

 

[King Kong Matt]

I think Stephen Ash is spot on.

I think he is too. Spot on Mr. Ash...

 

[TSandM]

Again, to try to get this back on track . . . I didn't ask why people don't want to take Fundies; I asked why people who do, or might want to take Fundies aren't doing it.

 

[Wildcard]

Class schedule makes it hard for many to do it.

 

[Swan1172]

I read a statistic on here a week or so ago about the suprisingly small percentage of divers that actually make dives after OW certification. If I remember correctly, the number was below ten percent. Assuming that statistic to be true, the actual "market" for DIR-F is fairly small.

I think another reason that DIR-F is not as popular as other classes is that GUE is not one of the major agencies. The majority of divers out there are PADI, NAUI, YMCA or SSI certified, most likely because their LDS is affiliate with a particular agency. I would imagine that most divers find a LDS and sign-up for OW with little regard for the agency they are going to be certified under. As I understand it, GUE does not have the same type of relationship with LDS's and therefore is not going to get the same exposure to the average diver.

 

[Jaeger]

I will never be a tech diver but I am convinced that I would indeed be a better diver and would be more comfortable in the water having learned DIR skills. The price of the instruction is more than reasonable and the ability to analyze techniques and mistakes on video is very compelling. What keeps me from taking the class is two things.

1) Over the last year I have invested close to 4k getting my wife and myself quality, safe, comfortable gear which I am not yet ready to rebuy

2) My wife is my dive buddy and has no interest in anything DIR due to the the "Internet DIR" arrogance she has experienced.


I understand the limitations of some of my equipment and the advantages of DIR configurations and would like to incorporate many of the concepts into my current kit where possible.
However, I cant find a class that will teach me skills with my current gear and give me the knowledge to improve my skillls and allow me to incorporate gear configs, rather than being forced to purchase new gear or rent gear that I am not going to use when I go home.

 

[lamont]

I am a "take it or leave it diver" and am open to anything DIR offers that I like. Love the gear, the long hose, the minimalistic function-oriented equipment.

I don't think the rigidity it requires brings anything to the table for me. For example, the other day my post regarding SMB attachment to my eclipse D-ring was pulled. Holding a camera with strobes, and blowing the SMB for our captain on drifts would not work as well packed in my backplate pocket. I can almost do it one-handed and it seems really silly to me to follow what works for another diver and the need to be conforming. The generalized notion that if it is clipped on my butt, it will somehow be less of an entanglement issue just makes no sense. I enter wrecks and can see for myself how I might get caught, and I prefer to have it in close proximity to my opposing thumbs, in direct line of sight. The x-shorts create so much drag and seem to be just another item to market, and sell to divers who have been told that this is THE way to carry an item.

there's a certain amount of moderation which occurs on the DIR forum on scubaboard because scubaboard is so exposed that otherwise the forum tends to degenerate badly. its some very thick harbor walls to protect against some very rough seas, and its specific to DIR-on-scubaboard.

The word "fundamental" says it all because fundamentalism connotes certain characteristics whether art, religion, etc. I prefer the option of diving solo at times and adapting to a given environment or even dive culture. So far, I have observed DIR divers often do not make decisions the way I think, but rather follow a set of protocols.

I think you're getting a somewhat limited viewpoint into DIR. I believe you're seeing DIR divers who aren't too far advanced from where I am (or most of the DIR divers on scubaboard) who are still learning the protocols and their training hasn't matured. And I'm not talking about the newly DIRF'd here. I'm talking about the newly tech-2'd. There's a significant difference between the newly minted tech-2 diver who started diving 3-5 years ago, and the diver with a couple decades of diving experience who got their tech 2 creds 5+ years ago (and i'm pretty sure there's another level above that, if not 2 or 3 more...).

The other thing that I feel is dangerous about DIR philosophy is that often their minds cannot encompass other's views. For example, many threads in Basic Scuba often turn into long discussions of "the DIR" approach to a problem...which is fine because I like to hear all views. But then in the DIR forum, the DIR divers don't really want (or allow) any discussion outside the realm of the DIR way. It is not reciprocal, which is acceptable to me, but I want to be free to choose from a much broader set of options. I like thinking for myself, and to follow a pre-determined set of solutions actually detracts from my diving enjoyment. I am not a conformist in my approach to anything else--it does not fit my identity. Having said that, it is intellectually very well thought out and superior in many ways so I try to get exposure when possible.

Again, you're seeing Internet DIR, which tends to devolve into a high degree of orthodoxy in thought because of the surrounding environment.

I actually got nailed by this a few weeks back when I posted about stage bottle d-rings mounted on backgas and wound up with the orthodoxy getting annoyed at my question. The guys that dive locally that are experimenting with this gear config, though, are all tech 2 / cave 2 (with maturity to the tech 2 creds) with decades of diving experience who are pulling off the really big dives and really dive with the craploads of stage bottles that make the gear config worthwhile. Reality is that they're DIR and they're grownups and they're figuring out what works for the dives around here, just like GI3 and JJ and Casey figure out what works for the dives in Wakulla and Turner. I threw a comment out there about it and hoped that RTodd might relay some additional wisdom, but I ran into a wall trying to discuss it on scubaboard because the internet just isn't mature enough to handle that kind of nuance...

Oh, and x-shorts aren't really DIR because they look too damn goofy...

 

[sea nmf]

I think Stephen Ash is spot on. Most divers don't care if they make a butt-first descent as long as they eventually get to tool around the reef and get back in the boat safely (usually thanks to a DM herding them).

I'm not sure how you came up with this generalization, but it certainly is not true for me.

I would speculate that many of the people interested in taking the class have an interest in technical diving, even if they don't initially admit it to themselves.

This cracks me up! Is this like not admitting to yourself that you are gay???? LOL! I would be interested in taking the class to obtain some techniques and get some practice in so that I wouldn't bore my regular buddy.

My intentions are to take from the class what I want, not to necessarily confirm to the teachings 100%. I don't believe me or my regular buddies are unsafe divers so that isn't a reason to take the class.

 

[Swan1172]

Again, to try to get this back on track . . . I didn't ask why people don't want to take Fundies; I asked why people who do, or might want to take Fundies aren't doing it.

My answer to that question is that I simply have not been able to fit it into my schedule. It is certainly a class that I want to take, but I have been too busy this summer to find an open day on a weekend to dive, let alone take a three-day class.