Why not Fundies?

[Diver Dennis]

Again, to try to get this back on track . . . I didn't ask why people don't want to take Fundies; I asked why people who do, or might want to take Fundies aren't doing it.

As Jeff knows there is maybe one? instructor in Western Canada. A lot of people can't travel much, so this is a problem. There is going to be a course where I live for the first time in September.

 

[Peter Guy]

Again, to try to get this back on track . . . I didn't ask why people don't want to take Fundies; I asked why people who do, or might want to take Fundies aren't doing it.

(The following was written BEFORE anyone else responded, but SB wouldn't let me post it!)

Well Ms/Dr. TSandM, there might be just a little bit of a problem with Advertising -- as in THERE ISN'T ANY (as far as I can tell). And of course there is also the issue of MARKETING the class -- as in THERE ISN'T ANY of that either (as far as I can tell).

It seems to me that to have a successful class such as this, the organizing entity needs to do the correct Marketing -- that is, define who needs/must take this class -- Why should someone take it? What need/desire is it going to fill?

Then, after answering those questions, the organizing entity needs to Advertise/Publicize that the class is available and that those in the Target Market need to take it because it will fill X,Y, Z needs.

For example, there are several local publications and BB's/newsgroups that could use a good explantion (i.e., PR piece) of what "Fundies" is and why it is so great/good/OK. I'm quite sure if someone wrote a good story about the class and how it has made one (i.e., YOU) a better/more effective/safer Diver (including some pictures with links to various videos) some interest would be generated.

Lastly, it might also help if the entity which is "promoting" the Class would present a positive image to the diving community.

Just a few random thoughts from one WHO WILL NEVER! take Fundies.

(end of original response)

S. Ash has made a very good observation as to why there may be such a small market for classes like Fundies or Essentials (an absolutely MUST class for every recreational diver IMHO). However, I still contend there IS a market for those classes -- which is the market for those 10% who DO want to become more accomplished divers (or anyone who wants to dive outside the DM lead type dive). And it is that market that both entities need to educate as to why Fundies (or Essentials) is worth the time, money and effort (which I believe they are).

However, until you get an entity like PADI (BOOOO!) who understands marketing, the classes will continue to go begging.

 

[Matt P]

One of the things I wanted to do was get a handle on WHY people who think it would be a good class aren't taking it, because there might be a way to address those issues. For example, offering equipment rental at a reduced cost might be a possibility.

I'm a new diver - 30 dives, OW and AOW and am interested in DIR-F. I won't take it until next year at the earliest. WhY? Top 3 reasons in order...

1) I don't feel ready. I'd like my OW and AOW classes have more time to sink in and percolate. Yes, I understand that it is a "fundamentals" class. I've got about 30 dives now. I'd like to wait until I hit about 50. My gut just tells me that I'd get more out of it after 50-ish dives.

2) I have yet to find another diver, instructor or LDS owner in my area who is interested in the class. It's just not there.

3) I need to get the "right" gear configuration. I'll be making some gear purchases this year. I'd like to have time to get used to diving it. It's another reason why 50 dives might be better than 30.

Finally - a comment on what I want out of the class...

I expect to get my butt kicked up. No - I DEMAND to get my butt kicked. My AOW class was good. It definitely had an immediate and positive effect on my diving. But, I really expect a significantly higher level of training in DIR-F. Pass? Fail? Who cares. I just want the training. You can keep the card.

I fully expect to disagree with some things taught in the class. I want to learn the "what" of DIR. But, more importantly, I want to learn the "why" behind the what. Once I understand the reason behind the methods then I will adopt what works for me and drop what doesn't.

 

[Diver Dennis]

(The following was written BEFORE anyone else responded, but SB wouldn't let me post it!)

Well Ms/Dr. TSandM, there might be just a little bit of a problem with Advertising -- as in THERE ISN'T ANY (as far as I can tell). And of course there is also the issue of MARKETING the class -- as in THERE ISN'T ANY of that either (as far as I can tell).

It seems to me that to have a successful class such as this, the organizing entity needs to do the correct Marketing -- that is, define who needs/must take this class -- Why should someone take it? What need/desire is it going to fill?

Then, after answering those questions, the organizing entity needs to Advertise/Publicize that the class is available and that those in the Target Market need to take it because it will fill X,Y, Z needs.

For example, there are several local publications and BB's/newsgroups that could use a good explantion (i.e., PR piece) of what "Fundies" is and why it is so great/good/OK. I'm quite sure if someone wrote a good story about the class and how it has made one (i.e., YOU) a better/more effective/safer Diver (including some pictures with links to various videos) some interest would be generated.

Lastly, it might also help if the entity which is "promoting" the Class would present a positive image to the diving community.

Just a few random thoughts from one WHO WILL NEVER! take Fundies.

(end of original response)

S. Ash has made a very good observation as to why there may be such a small market for classes like Fundies or Essentials (an absolutely MUST class for every recreational diver IMHO). However, I still contend there IS a market for those classes -- which is the market for those 10% who DO want to become more accomplished divers (or anyone who wants to dive outside the DM lead type dive). And it is that market that both entities need to educate as to why Fundies (or Essentials) is worth the time, money and effort (which I believe they are).

However, until you get an entity like PADI (BOOOO!) who understands marketing, the classes will continue to go begging.

Very good points Peter.

 

[SparticleBrane]

I disagree, Peter. I believe that they are attracting those who want to take the class. I'd assume the GUE doesn't want to teach people who saw their DIRF in an ad and decided to take it, just because it looked neat. If they started advertising with a good marketing campaign, so many people would want to take the class and it might turn out like PADI. GUE has complete control and very strict standards for it's instructors--unlike PADI. This way they know how their students are being trained.

If you have a chance, why NOT take Fundies? It's a great chance to improve your skills and learn something new.

Look at GUE kinda like Ferrari. Ferrari doesn't have a marketing/advertising department and has never spent money on marketing or advertising; they don't need to.

 

[jonnythan]

Well then...don't listen to what I am saying because I'm an idiot and not a mind reader.

Apparently I am

 

[GreenDiverDown]

Again, to try to get this back on track . . . I didn't ask why people don't want to take Fundies; I asked why people who do, or might want to take Fundies aren't doing it.

Well... I still think what I said holds true. Even those who would like to take it, don't because when it comes down to it they simply aren't willing to make the investment.

A long time ago I set up a DIRF... scheduled MHK... got some dudes together. They all were fired up to do it... but when it came time to forking over the dough they all bailed.

Why? They weren't willing to make the investment. Why? I guess the bottom line was they were happy with the status quo... or if they weren't, then they were not willing to put in the time, effort , and money to change it.

Here's my question. Why try to change things so that more divers will take the class? DIR is DIR. One of the best things about DIR is that it is for people that actually WANT to DIR . In a way it sort of screens itself. Basically, the class requirements, fees and purpose act as a filter. Make it cheap and available on every corner and what does it become? People that are willing to expend the energy and resources to take the class are the very people that you want in the class!

I'd let it go, Lynne. I understand that you think that it is so valuable that everyone should have the opportunity to experience it, but that's just not the way the world is. The folks that really want it will find a way to do it.

 

[Cacia]

OOOOHH, sorry, misread the question.

yes, I would say availabilty, gear, money. In that order. That is a much easier question. I agree it is not a group where marketing would really shake more eligible divers out of the trees. The market is already pretty limited.

 

[bradshsi]

What exactly are you waiting for before you decide to take the class?

I don't know an epiphany maybe or a dream in which Uncle Pug swims into my head and tells me to DIRF.....

Asking you the same question, unless you took the class directly out of OW, clearly there was a decision point for you as well. I figure it this way: I took 27 years to get married, 26 years to decide to move to the US and 23 years to become vegetarian. If I took that long making those important life decisions, I figure I can let a year or two pass before DIRF

Again, to try to get this back on track . . . I didn't ask why people don't want to take Fundies; I asked why people who do, or might want to take Fundies aren't doing it.

To me the things that would ease the way would be:

Some equipment flexibility that would allow use of at least some of my existing equipment. I'm ok with a long hose setup, but my Transpac stays.

A shorter intro course call it "Intro to DIRF" if you want. It would be a smaller step up and one that for me would help confirm if I was ready.

 

[cummings66]

I want to take the class, and I will. The immediate problem is there are no classes offered nearby and I just can't travel to the coast for it. I do not want to drive 500 miles for a class, maybe 200 but not much more.

I recognize the benefits of the class. I know they're going to challenge me and that I may indeed fail. However I'll most likely come away from it with greater skills.

What I don't like is that if I do fail who knows how long it will be before I can take it again, classes don't come around often. I'm not a fan of paying again for it either, I like how they test pilots. You pay for the exam, if you fail it you come back and show them documented training in the failure area and retest that item and if you pass you get your certificate. Most DE's don't charge again if done within a certain time period around here.

Here's in a nutshell why I want to take the GUE classes. I know by second hand knowledge and first hand dive buddy experience that the classes offer some real benefits to any type of diving I want to do. I want to go beyond the DIRF bit and get into technical diving and it seems to me they have their act together. They've got a good program put together and it seems to be well thought out.

I've looked at doing it as well as classes from TDI, DSAT etc. so that I have a well rounded education. So, get them to offer classes all over and more will take them over time.