Why not Fundies?

[Rick Murchison]

Don't (don't don't don't) (did I say don't?) take the course expecting to pass.

I've been instructing things from basic swimming to landing jets on aircraft carriers at night for over 40 years, and this is perhaps my biggest beef with the whole "DIR" thing. If I teach a course, I not only expect most everyone who starts the course to pass it, I expect them to excel. Granted, there is always the occasional unforeseen glitch that surfaces and prevents completion - whether some unknown physical inability or contraindication or the occasional lazy teen - but if the vast majority of average students who enter the course cannot do well then I have structured the class poorly. I've either set inadequate prerequisites, have an inadequate pre-screening process, have tried to cram too much into too little time, have poor supporting materials, or I am a piss-poor instructor.
It seems to me that there is some sort of misplaced ego trip around this "don't expect to pass" concept and that there is some very basic deficiency in GUE's understanding of effective course structure and/or teaching technique.
Flame away
Rick

 

[TSandM]

Actually, my original question was why people who WANT to take the class don't take it. There are a million reasons why someone might not want to take the class, and I think we've heard them all on Scubaboard at one time or another.

 

[jonnythan]

GUE faces a big dilemma on the passing thing.

The bar is set high. It will take more than ~3 days to be able to reach it.

Extend the class and charge *even more* (even though people complain *most* loudly about the cost) or keep it as is and maintain the high "provisional pass" rate?

 

[Hank49]

It seems to me that there is some sort of misplaced ego trip around this "don't expect to pass" concept and that there is some very basic deficiency in GUE's understanding of effective course structure and/or teaching technique.
Flame away
Rick

I was quite surprised to read a post on SB regarding a diver who PASSED Fundies and yet had an incident when an equipment adjustment that is a basic open water skill hadn't been mastered, causing an almost panic situation. For a course that is prerequisite to caves I thought second nature mastery of this skill would be mandatory.

 

[TheRedHead]

I think if someone wants to take the class, they will find a way to take it. I believe there are a considerable number of people who would like to improve their skills, but would prefer to take a class that is structured differently than Fundies. If PADI had an alternative propulsion specialty, I would bet a lot of people would take it.

 

[Rick Murchison]

Actually, my original question was why people who WANT to take the class don't take it. There are a million reasons why someone might not want to take the class, and I think we've heard them all on Scubaboard at one time or another.

In that case there can only really be two answers... (1) fear of failure, or (2) cost/benefit analysis comes up short ("cost" is both time and money; time includes scheduling)
Rick

 

[jonnythan]

I was quite surprised to read a post on SB regarding a diver who PASSED Fundies and yet had an incident when an equipment adjustment that is a basic open water skill hadn't been mastered, causing an almost panic situation. For a course that is prerequisite to caves I thought second nature mastery of this skill would be mandatory.

What skill was it?

Passing Fundies doesn't necessarily mean you're a safe or even very competent diver. There's only so much that can be observed and evaluated in a packed 3-day course that encompasses 4 dives.

 

[TheRedHead]

By the way, if you'd like to make the most efficient reversal try going vertical, head down, and rotating to your new desired heading before returning to horizontal. Quick, easy, nowhere near the water column disturbance of the horizontal in-place turn, and even a little bit of fun But decidedly not "DIR."
Rick

I do the heads down turn frequently. The helicopter turn is very easy. I've noticed that most of the DIR divers here dive in drysuits and it would appear that maintaining a horizontal position is desirable for them. In recreational diving, I invert frequently to peer under ledges. I think most of the "DIR" skills apply to technical diving more than recreational diving. My IANTD instructor said "This kind of diving is not supposed to be comfortable."

 

[TSandM]

Rick, to an extent, I agree with you, which is why I think Fundies ought to be structured into a two-part class . . . The first part would be the introduction of the skills and the setting of the bar, and the second part would be another run through all of it and an evaluation. The two parts would be at least several weeks apart, to allow for practice.

But, given the very small instructor cadre for GUE, and the fact that they do a lot of teaching out of town, I guess that's not very practical.

The only prerequisite for Fundies is to be a certified diver, have the prescribed equipment (which doesn't mean you have to be 100% compliant), and a desire to take the class. You might raise the pass rate by raising the prerequisites, but a fair number of scuba instructors don't pass the first time, so I don't know where you would have to set the prerequisites to raise the pass rate.

They do introduce a lot of new stuff, if you haven't done the kicks before, or shot a bag. But it isn't those NEW skills that make people fail, for the most part. It's poor buoyancy control and/or poor situational awareness. And I think it's not possible to awaken someone to the fact that their buoyancy control isn't what it should be AND correct it in a weekend. That takes practice. When you add high standards and the unwillingness to relax them, you are not going to "pass" a lot of people the first time through. But a "provisional" is NOT a failure. A provisional is simply an acknowledgment that you need to practice to meet standards. Some students (I believe HB Dive Girl was in this group) only need a week or two before they are up to speed. I needed six months.

I agree with you that the ideal situation would be to have a class that met weekends, say every other week for four or six sessions, where everybody got a chance to get videotaped and get feedback and practice . . . But what would THAT cost? And how many people could come up with the time to do THAT?

By using the provisional pass system, GUE keeps the class short and affordable, allows people to work on their own and does eventually pass them. Given the huge disparity between the level of skill of the student and the skill the instructor wants to see from them, I don't know how else you could do it.

 

[TSandM]

Hank's referring to me, and the experience I posted with getting disoriented and panicky when I was unable to clear my mask just after swimming out over a sheer dropoff, when I didn't know how deep the bottom was. I didn't panic because my mask was flooded, I panicked because I didn't know where I was, and I didn't know how much trouble I could get into if I started to sink.

I have a problem with disorientation underwater when I can't see. I've acknowledged it before on this board. Taking Fundies didn't magically fix that (or anything else!) Taking Fundies doesn't suddenly make you a superdiver.

I think that was kind of an underhanded jab, Hank.