Why not Fundies?

[TheRedHead]

Hmmm... guess I wasn't clear.
You're right... you should pick up the skills along the way without a formal course - my suggestion was a better use of time and $$$

How does the average diver learn to master the kicks and diving position without instruction? Diving with your back arched and shoulders back is not an intuitive position. Is the DIR style necessary to become a skilled diver?

 

[Rick Murchison]

For me, the ears are not reliable.

I think that's a good way to characterize ears as depth gauges for most folks. Usually my ears will alert me to very small changes in depth, especially near the surface - but sometimes they won't, so I can't depend on 'em as a reliable depth-change source. Stuff in the water column is much better - and there's always stuff, even in the clearest water. Just remember that there are vertical as well as horizontal currents (Cozumel leaps to mind) so whatever method you use be sure to verify it with frequent crosschecking to your depth gauge.
Rick

 

[Lead_carrier]

because I smoke. That is a choice that DIR makes. They have every right to exclude me from their organization the same way I have the right to choose to smoke.

I tend to agree with Rick too. Unless I plan on going DIR then I can spend the money and time on different classes that will work for the type of diving that I tend to do.

 

[MookieMoose]

I'm one of the poeple that is interested in learning the skills, etc that are taught in the DIF-F course, but have not taken the course, and I don't know if I will. My reasons for not taking the course are centered around two things. First is the cost. I don't think $300 is outrageous, but I'm a student at the moment and grad school doesn't pay very well, so money is tight. I do find it offensive/outrageous that the students for DIR-F are expected to cover all the travel costs of the instructor in addition to the course cost. I have taught many things in my time, but have never been reimbursed for my costs in addition to course fees.

Secondly, from having read the course sylabus on the GUE website, I don't believe that the time alloted for the course is sufficient to allow the majority of students to develop their skills to the required level. It comes out looking like a course which is designed for student failure. Teaching skills is not like teaching information. Sufficent time must be built into the course for at least the majority of students to properly develop their skills and pass the course. I'm not trying to argue that people should automatically pass becuase they paid their money and were present, but the idea of passing 'provisionally' and then needing to go home, practice more, and return at some later date for another exam to pass for real is rediculous. If you weren't able to satisfactorilluy perform the skills under the coaching and guidance of the instructor, how is it reasonalbe to expect people to get better when they go home to practice and must rely solely on their own understanding, which was clearly sub-standard, or they would have passed in the first place? When the course is structured in such a way that I have reason to believe that I can complete it successfully I hope to take it.

 

[brutus_scuba]

because I smoke. That is a choice that DIR makes. They have every right to exclude me from their organization the same way I have the right to choose to smoke.

I tend to agree with Rick too. Unless I plan on going DIR then I can spend the money and time on different classes that will work for the type of diving that I tend to do.

I've always been curious about t hat why does DIR not accept smokers?

 

[Rick Murchison]

Is the DIR style necessary to become a skilled diver?

No. But it is certainly one of the styles that works. And if it's the style that appeals to you then by all means, go for it.
Rick

 

[Jasonmh]

Boy, I am nothing if not mere mortal . . . especially when it comes to diving. Never did I get the feeling that my Fundies instructor didn't want to teach me, or didn't feel it was worthwhile. I was very clear when I took the class that all I wanted was to be a better recreational diver, and that was fine with him. (That has since changed, but DIR-F is a gateway drug.) The same instructor dove with us repeatedly after the class, at no charge, to help us practice and to keep giving feedback on how we were doing. Nobody thinks either of us is going to join the WKPP. Nobody cares.

What did I get out of the class that was so great? After the class, and the practice I did, I've gotten much improved buoyancy (ask Bob!), tolerance of task loading, non-silting kicks, a back kick (yay!), and the ability to launch an SMB without losing buoyancy control. I've got a good dive planning structure and a pre-dive routine. I have the beginnings of an understanding of team diving, and I've improved my situational awareness a ton. Best of all, I got a practice buddy who is committed, as I am, to improving our diving steadily -- and diving with him and my other friends, I have SO MUCH MORE FUN than I did before I took the class. Need more reasons?

Your experience definitely mirrors my own, and other people I know who have taken the class. For all the talk on the class being expensive, it looks to me like there are very, very few people who have taken the class saying that it is expensive. The cost of the class is not much compared to the instruction you receive. My class is $300, for the class. My instructor also spent an extra (not included in the class) 6 open water dives, several pool dives, about (4) 6 hour training sessions, covering classroom, theory, answering literally hours of questions on every topic. All that extra cost me about 32 bucks + buying him lunch. I would say that, overall, I have received atleast $1000 worth of instruction for my $346. It is not something that alot of people mention, but most DIR instructors really take on a mentoring role for their students, and are happy to help both before and after the class with advice, critiques, etc. Most of the people I know who have taken the class feel like they definitely got their money's worth.
On the issue of the gear, and rigidity, not being able to "question" and the "nobody is going to tell me what gear to have", it is also largely overblown.
In my class, questioning, challanging, and thinking about gear issues was actively encouraged. Most of the issues went like this:

Instructor: This is the way we use/store this peice of gear
Me: Well, I like to do it this other way
Instructor: Well, ok, you can do it that way, but here are the pros and cons of the way you are doing it, and here are the pros and cons of the way I am showing you. It is up to you to decide which you feel has the greater benefit of pros vs cons for you.

In pretty much every case, the instructor had a more valid reason than I did, and if I choose to ignore that then I was free to. But in every case but one I did change things to the way the instructor was demonstrating, because his way was clearly better.
As far as equipment for the class, there are many options available that alot of people do not use. Many of the instructors have extra backplates that they are willing to let their students use at no charge, you can rent one, you can borrow one from a fellow diver to try it out, etc. Most people who already have their own equipment will need to change the hoses, and beg, borrow, rent, or steal and BP&W. Many times it can be done without too much extra expense.
Of the reasons I hear for people choosing not to take the class, time and distance I can understand, price I can understand (from the standpoint of just not having the money), but price (as it relates to value) and "cult" and being too rigid I don't. I think it says something that you rarely see anyone who has actually taken the class saying any of these things (value, cult-like, etc), you really only see it from people who haven't taken the class.
I certainly agree with TS&M, it has helped improve my skills and the improved skills and buddy awareness have really helped me be more relaxed and have more fun. And it has made diving EASIER for me.
I know for me it was the best money I have spent so far on anything diving related.

 

[scubaaaronh]

How does one get over the equipment issue when one must have specific (and expensive equipment - we're not talking a particular type of mask, but a particular type of BC) equipment to even take the class?

Ok i said i would not get involved in a DIR thread cause i didn't want to be in the agrguement. But i have to say my wife and i just did some more training a couple weekends ago. As Walter said the reason we didn't look further with DIR is when we talked to the Instructor i was told i would have to change most of my equipment to do their class. I just bought a new BC and new fins last year. I can't afford to go out and buy a whole new rig for doing their class. So we went with another agency. Until they change this i won't take the class and its sad because i think i could gain some things by taking it. But as others have said i will just look for other agencies with good instructors to become a better diver.

 

[HowardE]

How does the average diver learn to master the kicks and diving position without instruction? Diving with your back arched and shoulders back is not an intuitive position. Is the DIR style necessary to become a skilled diver?

What defines a skilled diver?

 

[TheRedHead]

If I needed to hold a stop in blue water with no reference, I'd shoot a bag. There are no bragging rights in deco. Just get the job done.

We shoot the bag at the 30 foot stop. The most difficult part is making the gas switch at 110 feet in blue water without a reference except your team. The 10 foot stop is pretty easy if you are aware of the current. The freaky thing about the 10 foot stop is those conditions is that the water is so bright from the sun, you feel like you need sunglasses to see. My ears do not register a 1 foot change.