Why not Fundies?

[TheRedHead]

My ears tell me.

You ears tell you you've made a 1 foot change?

 

[cerich]

Well, I've never dived in 200ft vis. Most I've seen is ~50 and there were plenty of tiny floaties and so forth in the water right in front of my mask to make it easy to tell if I were moving relative to the water column. I also use my ears when I'm looking at something else, like a lift bag.. I should try it out with my eyes closed to see if they're sensitive enough to rely on..

for most of us they aren't....

 

[brutus_scuba]

For 3 complete days of instruction from a world-class GUE instructor?

My instructor is a "world-class" if you will insctructor. He has dove all around the world he literally helped write one of the many books on Scuba Diving he is certified through almost every agency, he is an Instructor Trainer he instructs everything I could ever want to learn. I"m taking a cavern course with him next week.
When we do our cavern training we will be with some other outstanding divers. One of whome was actually invited to dive the inside of the BonTaire (sp?) mines to video tape the city below, and the number of divers who have seen the city there can be counted on your right hand. I'm fortunate enough to have EXCELLENT Divers around me, and the thing I respect most is that they have open minds/ but indivduals minds. They use parts of the DIR methodology when it makes sense. But they also use the Keep it Simple method when it make sense. I guess what I"m saying is that you can get a world-class instructor without him/her being a GUE guy, and after my OW certs my instructor let me go dive with him whenever he's out diving for free and he still offers me tips on all the fundamentals of scuba diving without a 300 dollar price tag and we dove much more then 3 days. As he said "If an instructor isn't having you MASTER the fundamentals in O/W then he's not doign his job."

 

[TheRedHead]

Well, I've never dived in 200ft vis. Most I've seen is ~50 and there were plenty of tiny floaties and so forth in the water right in front of my mask to make it easy to tell if I were moving relative to the water column. I also use my ears when I'm looking at something else, like a lift bag.. I should try it out with my eyes closed to see if they're sensitive enough to rely on..

There's a lift bag and other team members to focus on too so my eyes are not glued to my computer, but I'm not really comfortable making obligatory deco stops in a 2 knot current (which tends to push you to the surface) without an occasional confirmation. I also have to keep an eye on my run time as well. All the blue water is very disorienting.

 

[jonnythan]

I guess what I"m saying is that you can get a world-class instructor without him/her being a GUE guy

Absolutely no argument whatsoever from me. GUE does not have the market cornered on fantastic instructors.

BTW, yes, my ears tell me when I've moved a foot or so in the water. I can feel my ears change going up 5 floors in an elevator.

 

[HowardE]

You ears tell you you've made a 1 foot change?

after hanging for a few... yes. 1 - 2 feet. I can FEEL it... it doesn't mean I have to equalize. But I can feel the pressure change.

 

[Rick Murchison]

Why would someone take Advanced Nitrox (a class with other classes as prerequisites) to learn the fundamental, basic skills of buoyancy control, finning, ascending, gas planning, and air sharing?

It might be nice that you get some training in those fundamental skills when learning about diving and obtaining up to 100% O2 (to depths of 130'), but.... why should you have to go through Nitrox course and then Advanced Nitrox course before you're allowed to learn the stuff you should have learned in OW but didn't?

Hmmm... guess I wasn't clear.
You're right... you should pick up the skills along the way without a formal course - my suggestion was a better use of time and $$$ - unless you want to become a GUE/DIR diver, in which case the DIR-F is (as I understand the program) an essential component. My point is that there are, in my opinion, better ways to invest your treasure and your effort. Which answers the original question of why many folks pass up DIR-F.
Nothing more complicated than that
Rick

 

[brutus_scuba]

Absolutely no argument whatsoever from me. GUE does not have the market cornered on fantastic instructors.

BTW, yes, my ears tell me when I've moved a foot or so in the water. I can feel my ears change going up 5 floors in an elevator.

My brother always makes fun of me b/c I'm constantly clearing my ears on land when driving up a hill or somethingk, even when I don't feel a pressure change. Usually in the water if I feel the chnange in pressure it's too late for me to equalize and I need to go up before I can clear my ears.

I can usually feel the difference in a foot during the fist 6-9 feet but below that it takes a little more difference in depth.

 

[PerroneFord]

For me, the ears are not reliable. I can tell a change of a couple of feet, but I have watched my computer for 1ft changes and I cannot detect it with my ears.

I practice in a 10ft pool laying on the bottom, then stopping at 1ft intervals up to 3ft and then back down. If I needed to hold a stop in blue water with no reference, I'd shoot a bag. There are no bragging rights in deco. Just get the job done.

 

[TSandM]

Remember that the class is the Fundamentals of DIR. . . DIR requires a certain equipment configuration, and they require it for the class.

I think many of us can agree that good buoyancy control and correct trim, the ability to propel oneself without silting out a divesite, and good situational awareness and buddy behavior are desirable things in ANY diver. They should be taught in any diving class, but they aren't. It would be nice if a prospective diver knew exactly where to go to be taught those things, but they don't. The one thing you know about Fundies is exactly WHAT will be taught and HOW it will be taught. But you have to be interested in DIR (or at least willing to listen), which is why I started the thread by specifying that I didn't want to discuss whether anybody should go DIR or not, but just what the obstacles were between people who would like this kind of instruction and taking the class.

This isn't a DIR versus the world thread.

One thing I think is a very positive development is that we now have Essentials, which allows a traditional BC as a transitional step to a full DIR configuration. And, in Seattle, we have at least one instructor teaching a class he calls "Elements", which is the buoyancy and trim and propulsion technique parts of Fundies, but with no equipment requirements at all (that I know of, anyway). So there are at least starting to be identifiable options for those who don't want to or can't make equipment changes or who are afraid of Koolaid