Why NOT DIR?

[JeffG]

From my experience, the dif is in getting the octo clipped off correctly.

John

Its not hard. All it takes is a snorkle keeper.

 

[limeyx]

The basic assumption that anyone who isn't diving with a bungeed backup drags their octo through the sand, knocking into the reef and just generally don't where their octo is, is equivilent to the assumption that all DIR advocates are jack*sses. Neither is true but both are often used as proof that one either should or should not use DIR/GUE practices.

Ignoring the "dragging through sand bit" -- handing off whats in your mouth is a "good idea"
because you
- know exactly where it is (your mouth)
- know it is working (you are breathing it)
- know the gas is good at that depth (you are breathing it)
- know where your backup is (around your neck)
- if for some dastardly reason your backup fails when you go to it, you gave the diver most needing a working reg, exactly that (now if absolutely necessary you can buddy-breathe the longhose if that's the only reg you have)

if you "test" your "octo" on the surface, then hand it off and it isn't working (assuming you can reliably find it), the already OOA divers gets a bit breath of nothing (or water) and they are the one most in need of a breathable gas.

The "dragging" argument is a part of it (and seen very very often where I am) but not all.

The "donate from the mouth" technique also scales up to tech diving where you might have more than one other reg attached to you -- you really dont want to grab a reg that is for the wrong depth to donate to someone.

 

[Thalassamania]

1. Surrender the primary, that makes the most sense, especially since then the receiver doesn't have to adjust to whatever you've decided works best as a backup and where on earth you've put it. A longer hose makes this easier.
2. What you do for a backup, what you decide to use and where you decide to put is is your business and your business only.

 

[JeffG]

I can see both arguments for and against DIR because I've been on both sides. Now that I have taken Fundies I have at least a little better understanding of the system.

See...there is the problem. Argument for and against.

The reality is that both are solutions to the problem (how to carry/deploy a regulator to an OOG diver)

I choose the donate the primary because that works for me in all of my diving situations and I do not need to know multiple type of responses.

My GF, on the other hand, will never tech dive. So in the big scheme of life, the fact that she has an octo instead of a backup...rates "Who gives a^%*&^" level.

I'm trying to dive as DIR as I can as far as equipment and procedures go, and I believe diving DIR could be for everyone. It just makes diving a lot more fun and safer.

It can be, but it doesn't have to either. Big difference.

 

[limeyx]

This thread has been pretty darn informative (and less flame intensive than the usual DIR comparison).

I don't dive DIR because I:


4) Spearfish
5) Don't like the long hose setup (once messed with my brother-a DIR diver-by showing up for dive with 20' of compressor hose wrapped around my neck "so we could be DIR buddies". He didn't laugh.)
6)Don't like the hogarthian "share your primary, switch to the pony" setup, with or without the long hose. The only two times I've had to share air, I was chasing a panicked diver on his way up. It was/is safer and quicker to hand him my octo (I wear it left shoulder, with a "longish" hose and hand it over purged. I forced it into the last guy's mouth and I know it saved him from a serous injury. Handing him my primary, with or w/o long hose, would have been difficult if not outright dangerous. It was all I could do to grab the guy and slow him down).
4) Don't think you need multiple redundant gear for warm water diving.

With all due respect,
(4) DIR does NOT say you cannot spearfish -- just that you have to be safe when doing it, and not go off solo all over the reef shooting things and being unsafe
(5), (6) Unless you have actually tried the longhose around the neck, and practiced donating a few times, I would say your comments are premature. It is a very easy, swift and simple procedure and works very well after a few practice goes. It also has a few benefits (which I listed in my other post)
4) (reprise? DIR does NOT prescribe multiple rudundant gear for recreational diving (even in cold water). Single tank, single reg (2 second stages) wetsuit diving is perfectly permitted. A good primary light is highly recommended (but I believe you can pass DIR-F without a light still? I did when I took mine but it's been a while)

Sometimes the Internet can spread a lot of confusion I guess.

 

[limeyx]

As for the practice of donating the primary, I'm not entirely convinced. Maybe it's my "other training" (fire department), but to give someone in trouble my primary goes against a reinforced behavior. If, by some strange occurence, my octo DIDN'T function properly, that means the diver in trouble (and likely panicked) now has the sole functioning reg, and I am now a potential victim. It's unlikely I'll be able to reclaim it from the panicking diver. My FD training taught me not to make a new problem by attempting to solve one. I think I prefer to give the diver in trouble my long octo instead, and I'll keep my primary.
However, I'm open to new ideas. I'm still listening.

I do agree that you possibly have a point here. I think that there are some considerations to make.

1) With a bungeed backup, if you breathe it (underwater) on the surface, you know it works and it is basically very very hard to drag it on the reef, or get junk in it. This increases the chances of it functioning when you need it
2) if you are often in situations where you may need to share gas with people who have not trained the same way (donate primary), then I think there is a very real possibility they may take a death-grip on the reg and refuse to give it back. This may be why "DIR" divers are criticized for practicing it so much

if you look at OOA cases as predominantly "I am going to rescue someone with less skill than me that may be a total stranger" (say you were a DiveMaster leading guided divers), then I could possibly see that you would need some other technique (since you are effectively forced to dive solo as you cannot count on the people being guided).

 

[uspap]

I don't do DIR because I don't want to replace my equipment. I am getting more into solo diving and would much rather rely on myself and my own redundant systems. I have never dragged my gear through the mud. It seems that people take the worst of each group and build a case around it. I've talked to some of the big dogs around here in GUE. Actually the founder of BAUE. Never did he dis my gear or lecture me. We had some nice conversations during the surface intervals. No we didn't dive togeather. His skills are far superior to mine no doubt. His whole group was cool. On another occation I was on a boat dive with a DIR guy who was pretty arrogant. He looked down his nose at everyone. He refused to be buddied and insisted on being solo. I write him of as just being a Tool. The qustion I have is how would he be able to give an octo drager his 7 footer if he refused to be anywhere near the rest of the group. I guess there are jerks on both sides of the fence.

I do admire the skills that DIR teaches. I would like to take a class. But like I said I can't afford to replace my gear.

 

[JeffG]

I was on a boat dive with a DIR guy who was pretty arrogant.

He refused to be buddied and insisted on being solo.

It just never stops. Thats why I love internet forums.

 

[SparticleBrane]

On another occation I was on a boat dive with a DIR guy who was pretty arrogant. He looked down his nose at everyone. He refused to be buddied and insisted on being solo. I write him of as just being a Tool.

Yeah this guy sounds like a jerk.

 

[djanni]

DIR isn't for everyone and isn't required for everything.

Jeff: Just wondering. . . Should that read; isn't required for "anything," instread of "everything?"