Why not DIR ?
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dbulmer
Contributor
Nemrod,
I think the DIR divers would tell you that being a good buddy isn't just about being there when things go tits up but preventing things from going wrong by communicating with your buddy at all times - the communication isn;t just about safety issues. In fact with DIR folk they never shut up underwater
( I think that some people will understand what I am trying to say even if I'm not saying it very well )
Secondly your point about the inexperienced - well in an ironic way I agree with you. That said, some "experienced" people have poor skills and the newer diver may be just as capable - it's a difficult one. If you're diving with some DIR blokes it can sometimes be difficult to ask the right question and get an answer when your in water time is so limited. The answer sometimes can only be appreciated with appropriate experience - this rings true I think whether you're DIR or not.
I think the DIR divers would tell you that being a good buddy isn't just about being there when things go tits up but preventing things from going wrong by communicating with your buddy at all times - the communication isn;t just about safety issues. In fact with DIR folk they never shut up underwater
( I think that some people will understand what I am trying to say even if I'm not saying it very well )Secondly your point about the inexperienced - well in an ironic way I agree with you. That said, some "experienced" people have poor skills and the newer diver may be just as capable - it's a difficult one. If you're diving with some DIR blokes it can sometimes be difficult to ask the right question and get an answer when your in water time is so limited. The answer sometimes can only be appreciated with appropriate experience - this rings true I think whether you're DIR or not.
dbulmer
Contributor
cmalinowski
Contributor
catherine96821:
Hmmm, I may be misinterpreting, but the GUE divers I've met don't go around telling people at dive sites what they are doing wrong. They aren't "dive nannies." If someone asks, they would be happy to talk with them. Or if chided or mocked, they may defend their position. But I don't know of any GUE-trained diver who walks up to a group of people and begins to proclaim their beliefs and discourages the other diver's methods. Now, I have seen the other way more, as in: Gearing up, someone comes over and begins to talk. Notices the long hose and explains why they don't like DIR... much like people around here. Then, if by some chance the GUE diver defends their position, they get labeled as the pretencious one. It's the same way lots of people bully others who are different and rationalize it or justify it as the "others" being in the wrong.
GUE divers may defend their position here because it is a forum where the questions get asked and answered. In the real world, they don't run around inspecting other's gear and diving practices and letting people know that they are doing it wrong. That's one of those myths or urban legends I believe. I am sure that someone has a story of one person that did it. That person probably wasn't even GUE trained, but a GUE want-to-be giving others a bad name. Kinda like the rednecks that give all nascar fans a bad name
And I believe that GUE is trying to work away from the term "DIR" and just call it GUE diving, but I have never seen anything official and that could be completely false.
Have a good one, be safe, and enjoy your dives,
Chris
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Well, there's one professional photographer that I know of ... in fact, he's participating in this thread ...catherine96821:
As for others, it depends on what you mean by "successful" ... check out the galleries of Uncle Pug and Snowbear and decide for yourself how successful their photography is ... I know I'd be pretty happy to be doing so well, especially with the point-n-shoot setups they're using.
Around here, there are two very important skills that DIR emphasizes that are very useful for photographers ... bouyancy control that will let you hover, absolutely still, for as long as is necessary to get the shot you want ("waiting out" a timid subject); and the ability to propel yourself in any direction/orientation you want without stirring up silt.
Granted, those skills are by no means exclusing to DIR ... but from personal experience, I did take both of them to much higher levels after taking the class.
... Bob (Grateful Diver)
The OP asked why not DIR? This post contains my reasons, to the extent that I can describe them, at this time.
I think I´m with catherine on this one...
From an outsiders perspective I am willing to accept greater risk than the "true" DIR diver. On a recreational dive I´ll dive with almost anyone who can turn on their own air as long as they don´t annoy me. That policy has resulted in a few "bad" dives, but I´m sure I would have missed out on a lot of good ones as well. Some dives, in some circumstances, I´ll do solo. I will dive air and propably use less He than the standard mixes of DIR, not because I don´t accept the benefits, but because my risk/reward analasis looks different than that of DIR.
I won´t do techdives with anyone (regardless of certs) that I haven´t dived with before and who I trust to do their utmost to keep both of us alive in a hostile enviroment. Even on those dives, I believe, that the guiding philosophy should still be one of self-sufficency because **** happens and you should be prepared to deal on your own. I don´t do any dive that I wouldn´t do solo, that is my "safetycheck" to make sure I don´t exceed my own limitations.
I do like that DIR "promotes" diving in teams of three as I think that is the best configuration of a team. When I´ve taken other courses that I think will be of greater value, I may or may not, take DIR-f...
I think I´m with catherine on this one...
From an outsiders perspective I am willing to accept greater risk than the "true" DIR diver. On a recreational dive I´ll dive with almost anyone who can turn on their own air as long as they don´t annoy me. That policy has resulted in a few "bad" dives, but I´m sure I would have missed out on a lot of good ones as well. Some dives, in some circumstances, I´ll do solo. I will dive air and propably use less He than the standard mixes of DIR, not because I don´t accept the benefits, but because my risk/reward analasis looks different than that of DIR.
I won´t do techdives with anyone (regardless of certs) that I haven´t dived with before and who I trust to do their utmost to keep both of us alive in a hostile enviroment. Even on those dives, I believe, that the guiding philosophy should still be one of self-sufficency because **** happens and you should be prepared to deal on your own. I don´t do any dive that I wouldn´t do solo, that is my "safetycheck" to make sure I don´t exceed my own limitations.
I do like that DIR "promotes" diving in teams of three as I think that is the best configuration of a team. When I´ve taken other courses that I think will be of greater value, I may or may not, take DIR-f...
Look for nearly 30 years I was a NASDS - PADI trained diver. I never had an OOA or a case of DCS with either myself or my buddies. I logged 100's of dives. They were all good safe dives.
A few years ago I decided that I needed training and after much thought chose the DIR route. This was after taking four PADI refresher courses and being shocked by how little and few skills were taught.
Now as a DIR style diver I have spent many dives with non DIR trained divers. My whole Port Hardy trip was spent with a PADI OW trained diver as my primary buddy. The other divers were tech1 and tech 2 certified. My primary buddy had been versed in certain protocols that are taken or adapted from DIR. Light signals, long hose air shares and buddy awareness etc...
I will dive with any non DIR diver as long as it is a rec. enviroment. That and they can't be idiots above or below water. My only rule and expectation is good buddy awareness. I have an average sac of .33 this means I can stay down a very long time on an AL 80 or larger tank. I will and do dive with "hoovers" without complaint. Mike had a sac of 1.25 and would drain a 130 in under an hour. I'd be lucky to go through 1200 psi for the same dive. Not an issue. Again in a rec non stress dive environment I'll dive with hoovers, silters and yo-yo's and enjoy myself.
The one type of diver I won't dive with is one who has no care for buddy awareness - Same ocean - same day diver is not what I consider a buddy. That is a PITA and I won't spoil or endanger my dive chasing after someone like that.
So if this attitude makes me an elitist - well I can live with that, 'cause I sure as hell would rather be around to dive another day than to get killed or bent chasing after someone who doesn't give a rats butt about my safety. Honestly I didn't need GUE to teach me that. I had come to this conclusion as a PADI diver.
A few years ago I decided that I needed training and after much thought chose the DIR route. This was after taking four PADI refresher courses and being shocked by how little and few skills were taught.
Now as a DIR style diver I have spent many dives with non DIR trained divers. My whole Port Hardy trip was spent with a PADI OW trained diver as my primary buddy. The other divers were tech1 and tech 2 certified. My primary buddy had been versed in certain protocols that are taken or adapted from DIR. Light signals, long hose air shares and buddy awareness etc...
I will dive with any non DIR diver as long as it is a rec. enviroment. That and they can't be idiots above or below water. My only rule and expectation is good buddy awareness. I have an average sac of .33 this means I can stay down a very long time on an AL 80 or larger tank. I will and do dive with "hoovers" without complaint. Mike had a sac of 1.25 and would drain a 130 in under an hour. I'd be lucky to go through 1200 psi for the same dive. Not an issue. Again in a rec non stress dive environment I'll dive with hoovers, silters and yo-yo's and enjoy myself.
The one type of diver I won't dive with is one who has no care for buddy awareness - Same ocean - same day diver is not what I consider a buddy. That is a PITA and I won't spoil or endanger my dive chasing after someone like that.
So if this attitude makes me an elitist - well I can live with that, 'cause I sure as hell would rather be around to dive another day than to get killed or bent chasing after someone who doesn't give a rats butt about my safety. Honestly I didn't need GUE to teach me that. I had come to this conclusion as a PADI diver.
*Floater*
Contributor
It's just a name that had its origins in cave diving and all the deaths and accidents in the cave community because people were doing things wrong. It doesn't really make as much sense anymore, especially in rec diving. Maybe GUE will rename it GUE-F, or something else.
Just because someone, for example, wears their bottomtimer/computer on the left hand instead of the right doesn't mean they are doing anything wrong in some absolute sense, just that they aren't following the "DIR" system. However, other things, such as doing deep cave dives on air would probably still be considered wrong by most DIR divers.
Nemrod, I wasn't trying to pick on solo divers or say they are bad buddies. But from reading this board for the last nine months or so, it's become clear to me that there are some people who approach diving from the standpoint that it is not reasonable to depend on one's buddy for anything -- that the diver must be self-sufficient in all things. That leads to decisions about gear and procedures that are quite different from those taught by GUE, because the underlying assumptions are different. That's all.
but while respecting anybodys decision to dive the way they want may or may not be preached in GUE/DIR it is often not 'practiced' very well by some of their adherents, perhaps their newer or wanna be adherants. So while I agree they may have some things I can learn from (I will agree to same for just about anyone until I personally learn different) I will probably just choose to find a qualified instructor from some other agency rather than go GUE/DIR. Because there does seem to be a more 'judgemental' tone from some of those who adhere or aspire to DIR philosophy. In point of fact, see below, another one of the great 'advertisments' for why not DIR...
So while I will study up on the philosophies and try to learn from them and may even eventually take some courses if the instructor that I like happens to be GUE or DIR, as I stated before in other threads, I can not picture myself drinking the koolaid. Just a personal decision, one I am comfortable with, and IMAO diving is about being comfortable with what you are doing, having fun, and making sure you survive to share the experience over a drink and some good food afterwards.
<edit: Looks like quoted diver was definate wannabe as opposed an actual DIR trained diver... LINKY>
Vayu:
So while I will study up on the philosophies and try to learn from them and may even eventually take some courses if the instructor that I like happens to be GUE or DIR, as I stated before in other threads, I can not picture myself drinking the koolaid. Just a personal decision, one I am comfortable with, and IMAO diving is about being comfortable with what you are doing, having fun, and making sure you survive to share the experience over a drink and some good food afterwards.
<edit: Looks like quoted diver was definate wannabe as opposed an actual DIR trained diver... LINKY>
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