Why not DIR ?

[Cacia]

now, this is a fun thread! Part of the problem, Grateful diver is that you have DIR "style" divers who dive DIR sometimes but not all the time. I really believe in my heart that Peter guy once he is really passionate about his photography (I can see it coming), will, the first time he is caught up in the rapture of a spotted eagle ray swimming by, and lynne doesn't see it, and he soooooo wants the opportunity, she will find herself there alone. I might be wrong. I can't wait to talk to them down the road. My question about DIR photogs was really a question--not a challenge. I do find it a stretch to believe that they are following such a rigorous prescription for a dive, not using a computer and taking pictures. I think some of them might be fudging that a little. My basic point was this:

DIR people often point out that it is not optimal for them to dive with non-DIR divers at times, or at all. I am just making the point that that works both ways. Sometimes non-DIR divers want/need more freedom than the dogma allows. It certainly is not personal on my part. I do think the gear and the skill sets have a lot to offer.
Rodney King once said "can't we all just get along?".

 

[Nemrod]

"The rest of us get defensive, but think what it would be like if they did not...we would have the dive nannies following us around everywhere commenting on every move we made. "

Thanks, I like that, do you need a buddy? I think you have a good point, the segregation may be a good thing. N

 

[lamont]

A DIR diver lacks none of the skills of a solo diver, they just choose to also develop team diving skills. I'm not going to tell anyone that solo diving is wrong, but don't delude yourself into thinking it makes you better.

 

[Cacia]

oh Lamont, I know for a fact that having the buck stop with myself makes me better in some ways.

 

[daniel f aleman]

A DIR diver lacks none of the skills of a solo diver, they just choose to also develop team diving skills. I'm not going to tell anyone that solo diving is wrong, but don't delude yourself into thinking it makes you better.

And viceversa.

 

[Rick Murchison]

Why not DIR? Simple...
Sometimes, doing it right means not doing it "DIR."
Rick

 

[Vayu]

Yeah I am a wannabe. Thats why i'm seeking out the training. I just have personal experience with instructors that smoke, suck, and/or wanted me to die.

Seen 2 that smoke. Seen about 8 that suck. Only met one of the other so far. Suffice to say I don't like diving with any of them.

I'm not saying GUE has made the only way to dive. There are good divers with sub-par equipment, good instructors with mainstream agencies, and good divers and instructors with good equipment with agencies that just don't like DIR.

My point is that GUE has set an extremely high standard for their students and instructors. They respect safety over the desire to pump out c-cards. Maybe this isn't as commonplace in the technical diving arena but I see it all the time in the openwater diving industry.

-V

 

[OE2X]

now, this is a fun thread! Part of the problem, Grateful diver is that you have DIR "style" divers who dive DIR sometimes but not all the time. I really believe in my heart that Peter guy once he is really passionate about his photography (I can see it coming), will, the first time he is caught up in the rapture of a spotted eagle ray swimming by, and lynne doesn't see it, and he soooooo wants the opportunity, she will find herself there alone. I might be wrong. I can't wait to talk to them down the road. My question about DIR photogs was really a question--not a challenge. I do find it a stretch to believe that they are following such a rigorous prescription for a dive, not using a computer and taking pictures. I think they might be fudging that a little. My basic point was this:

DIR people often point out that it is not optimal for them to dive with non-DIR divers at times, or at all. I am just making the point that that works both ways. Sometimes non-DIR divers want/need more freedom than the dogma allows. It certainly is not personal on my part. I do think the gear and the skill sets have a lot to offer.
Rodney King once said "can't we all just get along?".

All the DIR divers that I know will all dive with non DIR divers in the right conditions...

My friend and frequent dive buddies Uncle Pug and Gratefuldiver are both photographers in their own right. I can safely say that we can and have formed a buddy team where we were all taking pictures at the same time. All of us were using our computers in depth/time mode although I'm not sure if UP even had his BT with him. Not once did we loose track of one another during a 100 minute dive.

On the opposite side of the spectrum - last month I was on a wall dive in about 50' of water. Three man team. One person is tech2 and not a photographer, me and a new diver with a camera (and my best friend - mike). We were all configured "DIR" style and all had can lights. Mike was the only one with a camera. Both myself and David were hovering a few feet behind Mike while he was taking pictures. He didn't have a clue that we were within 6' of him. I thought since he was so focused on what he was doing that I would toss in an OOA drill to see how Mike would respond. Taking my light beam of my 21W HID I flashed it on the wall a few feet in front of him. Had I been with a DIR trained diver - within seconds his primary would have been deployed and the drill would have been under way. I got no response. So this time I took my light beam and frantically started waving it across his LED screen, hands and side of his mask. No response. When I started the exercise I took note of my time. From the moment that I started the drill to the point where Mike finally looked at me - it took 3 minutes..........

To Mike's credit he had less than 30 dives at this point and since this was for educational purposes we discussed and laughed about the potential consiquences several hours later. For the rest of the trip, no matter how preoccupied Mike was with his dive or taking pictures, he was always aware of me as a buddy. One easy lesson and he is a very changed diver.

I as a photographer have all the freedom that I need to get the shots that I want and still for the most part stay within the confines of DIR. If I need to go outside the parameters, then so be it. First I weigh the risks to see if it's worthwhile.

Topside I shoot extreme sports. The athletes that I photograph know that no photo is worth getting hurt or killed over. It's just pictures that I'm making. If the risks are too great, then we don't get the shot. It doesn't matter how far we have traveled, how much money has been spent or how angry the client may become. It's just a photo. I carry that same ethic underwater as well.

 

[Cacia]

Vayu: I agree with you 100%. I don't want to commit that high to safety. But just because you are a safer diver does not mean you are a better diver. Do you think the safest surfers are the best surfers?

What other sport says the safest are the best??




added after 0ex2: "If I need to go outside the parameters, then so be it. First I weigh the risks to see if it's worthwhile. "

THATS what the rest of us are throwing the flag on! (personally, I am starting to understand the koolaide jokes.)

 

[Diver Dennis]

I was doing a bit of research on the board regarding DIR and I read this sticky on the DIR forum a couple of times. Cavediver was the author and it is very well written. Here is an excerpt and the link to the entire post.

Quote:

Sadly, many of the debates that rage over DIR get mired in the equipment considerations and foster a "Simon says" attitude among its followers. The opponents to the DIR philosophy often equate the advocates to be “lemmings” or members of a cult, which is due in large part to a few outspoken individuals who embrace the concept without understanding it. There is nothing in DIR that I have been introduced to that uses an explanation of "because Joe Diver said so." Quite the contrary, every single recommendation is well thought out and stands on sound reasoning. Unfortunately, those few outspoken individuals foster a self-righteous, holier than thou attitude which tends to turn people away from a sound concept.

Link:http://www.scubaboard.com/showthread.php?t=44823

I have posted many times that I am not DIR but I think a lot of their concepts are very good. It is frustrating for myself and others to see posts that feature remarks that imply that non-DIR divers are sub-par. It may not be blatant and I usually read them more than once to make sure but the implication is clearly there. Most of these remarks are from divers who are new to the DIR style and although I understand they are excited about it, the tone of their posts do turn the rest of us off and bring out the outspoken individuals on the other side and a battle ensues. Yes, both sides have these individuals.
Repeating myself again, the really experienced divers on both sides are the ones that are not usually the ones involved in mud slinging and those are the guys that I learn from.