Why no redundancy in mainstream rec scuba?

[tbone1004]

so I'll address them in order

Mask-I don't carry a spare mask basically ever. I can read my petrel well enough for decompression without it and I have practiced enough of getting a bubble cupped around one of my eyes to see it. If I need to go somewhere, that's what my buddy is for. If you had a bad experience with a mask breaking and got spooked and want to carry one, good for you. I keep it up on shore and it's good enough for me.

Compass-I carry a nav slate on all OW dives, period.

SMB-same as compass

Pony-I never carry a pony. Buddy/CESA is plan of attack for air share, or I am diving some sort of doubles

If you have a thigh pocket and want to throw a mask/compass/smb in there, no harm no foul. I usually just clip the compass and smb to my butt d-ring since I almost never wear a pocket. The pony thing is another discussion but if it makes you happy, then that is all that matters

 

[Sam Miller III]

It is called the "domino effect" -- One event creates an event followed by another event, followed by another event
until a major event ...

In the late 1950s or possibly the early 1960s the then giant American photography company Kodak introduced a Kodak automatic slide projector which heled 80 slides in a rotary tray called the "Carousel." This invention was a major milestone for the amateur photographers, who could create a 80 slide program of a vacation, a company briefing or an informative diver program.

I used my Carousel projector for the later two but specifically to create diver programs. I along with a few others, sadly most are in the big reef in the sky, were on a lecture circuit through out SoCal . It was an interesting time in dive history, LA Co UIA had been created in 1954 and were leading the way for the Instructor alabet on a national & international level and some, often the majority, of the lecture material was being absorbed into mainstream instruction

In one programs "Equipment Preparation " I opened the program with a bigger than life slide of John Wane astride a horse in a typical cowboy attire. My introduction and explanation of the slide was that the American cowboy was well equipped for all emergencies and most items served a primary purpose as well as a secondary purpose .

His Hat (aka Sombrero ) protected him from sun, but also was a container for his horses oats, his bandana was to protect his neck from sun burn as well as to shield his respiratory system from dust, etc,etc...

So it is with recreational diving today, every item of equipment should have a purpose, hopefully a multipurpose as did the attire if the American Cowboy -- If the diver considers a piece of equipment essential then wear it and use it.

The use of redundant equipment is a silent testimony to status of todays "divers" and their training - They begin with little or no aquatic experience, live in an area that is bone chilling cold, often raining, sleeting or snowing, who are "trained" for nominal conditions and are christened "divers," when in actuality should be identifies as some one who "dives." They save their hard earned Yankee dollars make a few trips to the tropics and in a matter of a few years have magically made 1000 or more dives-- The joy of being a modern diver.

It apparently is not going to improve-- I suspect that some time in the near future diver training or a specialty will be
"Redundant equipment. "

Sam Miller, III

 

[wheeledgoat]

I've only been diving for a couple years, but in that time I've seen an impressive spectrum of opinions on equipment. I'm always willing to learn, so I'm all ears when I get a seasoned diver talking. And it seems the further I travel the bigger the differences.

Perhaps the opinion that speaks the loudest is that of my current instructor, who does not comment on my individual equipment. The silence is deafening, actually. Especially when I was testing out a rig that I know damn well wasn't optimal - not a word was said. All our conversations on gear have been in a general context. The message is clear: your gear is yours, and yours alone. Make your own decisions and do what works for you. You don't need the permission of any person or agency.

 

[chrisch]

...The message is clear: your gear is yours, and yours alone. Make your own decisions and do what works for you. You don't need the permission of any person or agency.

This is true. However, it is good to remember that the person you are buddy to also has to understand and agree your choices. If you dive alone then you are master of your own destiny. If you dive with someone else then you have - at the very least - a basic responsibility to that person. If you feel the other person does not take his/her responsibility to you seriously, s/he might swim away to look at fish or take a photo then you are essentially diving alone.

Solo diving requires redundant equipment. There are training courses for solo diving and they require redundant equipment. The OP list is a very good one for solo diving.

I question why people wish to equip for solo diving when in a buddy pair or larger team. One possibility is they think like solo divers so might well act like solo divers. Best to solo dive under those circumstances IMHO. I agree with you 100% - the choice is yours to make and yours alone, but I hope you will accept that other people will draw conclusions (rightly or wrongly) based on that choice.

 

[StefinSB]

An SMB and compass are not redundant items unless you take two of each one.

 

[tursiops]

An SMB and compass are not redundant items unless you take two of each one.

They are presumably redundant to the dive....that is, not needed."Redundant" does not mean two (or more) of something, it just means it is superfluous.

 

[Doc]

"Redundancy" doesn't mean bringing every shiny object you own.

There are many dives that certain sanctified objects might be useles. Not every dive would an SMB be of any value. Most buy them and wear them as ornamental decoration- a low percentage can expertly deploy one without strangling themselves.

I do carry a (collapsible) snorkel, not because PADI insists, but because I've spent a night adrift. (That and 20' of 550 cord) Personal history and experience influence behaviors...probably more than any actual "need".

I've seen more than one British Scapa Flow regular show up in the Caribbean with an "adjustable spanner". (Monkey Wrench) They find grand amusement in watching us, as well. (More of an effort in establishing their patriarchal superiority)

Spare mask? No thanks, I wear a tether. A UDT idea. When they go out to play, they dress and equip for specific conditions and mission. Why should an AOW diver act differently?

1/3 of the dive time in my life, all the air I could want is 25' straight up. Rarely do I carry a compass, the Sun works just fine. I live on the edge.

Take what you need, not what you own.

 

[tbone1004]

@chrisch what redundant equipment do you feel is necessary and why?

@tursiops do you think those two items are ever redundant in an open water environment?

 

[boulderjohn]

Aren't most deaths in scuba diving caused by an out of air situation ?

No. The single greatest reason for scuba fatalities is a medical event--by far. It is true that the single most PREVENTABLE cause of fatalities, according to a joint DAN/PADI study a few years ago, is an air embolism caused by a panicked ascent to the surface, usually preceded by an OOA situation. That is still a small minority of the total fatalities.

I have a different attitude regarding recreational and technical diving--here are my thoughts on these issues for recreational diving.

Spare Mask: I was required to carry one in my original technical training. When I took cave training, my instructor said that in 40 years of diving and instructing, he had never seen or heard of anyone losing a mask on a dive, so he didn't carry one. I have a hard time imagining a situation where I would totally lose a mask, and if I did lose a mask on a recreational dive, it would not prevent me from reaching the surface. I do not carry one on a recreational dive.

Pony Bottle/Spare Air: I teach the use of a pony bottle in a self-reliant diver course, but I do not carry one on a recreational non-solo dive. I will not ever run out of air on my own (not even close), and if I did run out through some miracle without a buddy near me, I could reach the surface easily with a CESA, even from 100 feet. As for a spare air, that is simply a good way to experience running out of air twice on the same dive.

Compass: I always have one, but it is rarely for use in an emergency. If it is going to get used on a dive (and it often is), it is a planned part of the dive from the start. There are not many instances in which it will come in handy in an emergency situation. In an emergency, you would have to know before the emergency what direction you need to follow. I often dive a sinkhole with limited visibility, and I know the direction back to the wall in case I get too far away to see it, but that hardly constitutes an emergency. I can figure out the direction to the surface without a compass.

SMB: I always carry one if there is any possibility that it will come in handy. That means I always have one on every open ocean dive, but I would not need one on a typical lake--no possibility of getting lost or hit by a boat. PADI has recognized this and made the use of an SMB a requirement for the OW course.

 

[StefinSB]

They are presumably redundant to the dive....that is, not needed."Redundant" does not mean two (or more) of something, it just means it is superfluous.

Interesting try. So following your train of thoughts a spare second stage is superfluous too as is a BCD.