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Wibble

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Should have added that a major consideration is what others around you dive. Have you some friends with a particular penchant for one or other; if so it makes sense to talk to them.

Similarly what's the support like around you. Being in the US I guess will guide you towards US-built machines. The reality is that there's a few spares you need to get access to such as cells. Other parts are less common.

Finally it's worth thinking about specific opinions you may have. Sure, those opinions are more a gut feel than based upon experience (you're a novice, that's fine!), but it could sway you in one direction or other.

I had strong opinions about the Revo with its twin scrubbers, manual rebreather roots and the five cells. I jumped for that and haven't regretted it one bit. Especially as I consume half the amount of scrubber than the others do :wink:


Tip: budget for at least two sets of cylinders. For MOD1 you need a single stage - ali7 is optimum sized. Then the breeding cylinders for banking, different bailout depths... Also need to have some spares in hand including spare cells.

Be careful if buying second hand. Not for crooks or anything, just that you don't know in detail what is good or bad. Try to find someone you know who knows to kick its tires. Budget for a full service including "we had to change the electronics and the gangel pin in the head, that'll be $1000+ please". Which is why a lot of people just buy new for their first one.
 

tbone1004

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It's a little bit like vaccine and gradient factors, people read stuff online and don't trust research.

The poseidon still carries the burden of early baby faults and bad customer service from when the unit first came out about 15 years ago.

Yes you can buy it in recreational setup but to complain that it wont do 150m dives in that setup is like complaining that the octopus you bought doesn't have two first stages.
If you want tech setup then just get that straight away and change the depth limits yourself in the computer.

And repackable scrubbers have been the only option for several years and an option for even longer.

I think one of the main reasons you don't hear much talk about them is that most poseidon divers are happy with their gear and don't bother getting in to discussions with people who don't know what they are talking about and still want to throw trash around.

I think one thing to keep in mind is that Rebreatherworld and Scubaboard are largely US-Centric and Poseidon has had a horrific history in this country which has turned many people off of the unit. I have close to 3-dozen Poseidon regulators that I use as my primary regulator system but I was only able to buy them because they were dirt cheap because of how mismanaged Poseidons USA distribution was up until about 5 years ago.
 

Big-swede

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I think one thing to keep in mind is that Rebreatherworld and Scubaboard are largely US-Centric and Poseidon has had a horrific history in this country which has turned many people off of the unit. I have close to 3-dozen Poseidon regulators that I use as my primary regulator system but I was only able to buy them because they were dirt cheap because of how mismanaged Poseidons USA distribution was up until about 5 years ago.


Yeah they have a steep hill to climb even in Europe.
 

Aaron Harmon

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I think one thing to keep in mind is that Rebreatherworld and Scubaboard are largely US-Centric and Poseidon has had a horrific history in this country which has turned many people off of the unit. I have close to 3-dozen Poseidon regulators that I use as my primary regulator system but I was only able to buy them because they were dirt cheap because of how mismanaged Poseidons USA distribution was up until about 5 years ago.


That's a shame and tbh it's surprising. I assume they've gotten better? DGX carries them. I really like DGX and selling something in this community is akin to endorsing it. We put a lot of trust in the dive shops that we do business with and expect them to point us in the right direction (especially when we are starting out). I would hope that they wouldn't carry poorly supported products. Even a minor purchase in scuba gear be hundreds of dollars and I hate to regret any purchase.
 

fsardone

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Hopefully they have parts, I have a dive buddy who has been waiting on his replacement HUS for 5 years now. He bought another unit of a different brand with US support. It was a very expensive lesson.

Every unit has pros and cons, some a made poorly, some are supported poorly. Some are flood tolerant, some aren't, some are bulky, some aren't. Some units are built and supported well, but they weigh more than the boat you are getting on. There isn't a unit made that everybody agrees is perfect.

Just for the record, HUS is not made by APD. The company making the HUS hardware was bought by a big brand name entering in the CCR market and stopped selling the parts to APD. So APD stopped installing HUS to retrofit old units. Then APD recently sourced a different supplier for HUS and solved that issue.
The issue now is brexit and APD opened a subsidiary in The Nederlands in order to have a presence in European Union and solve customs issues

Full disclosure: I live in Italy and lived in UK and I dive an inspiration vision with 2020 qualified to hypoxic tmx and more than half of my dive buddies own an inspo and about half have more than one reb (some as BOB some as sidemount option when cave diving or for fun) we all dive deep.
 

grantctobin

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I’ll echo what @tbone1004 and @rddvet have said. If you can find a used unit (and later sell towards what you paid for it) or rent one and then buy at cost-rent rate, I’d encourage it. There are perks and problems to any unit but you won’t necessarily understand until you’ve dived one for an extensive period. E.g I could encourage you to absolutely not get a Sidewinder or “pick unit” for a first unit, but depending on who you take your course with, you may or may not garner and appreciation for why and what subtleties come with it. I will add that resale value and number of units that pop up *could* be a factor for community value of the unit. I was offered a few Inspo for $1K (with the older electronics) each and turned it down and have found Poseidon 6 and 1-2 7s in the $2.5K and lower range and passed. That said, if you were surrounded by a community of Inspo or Evo, it’s not a bad choice, even after you pay to upgrade to modern or AV1 electronics. I’ll end with “instructor trainer” may mean the world but may also equate to a fellow diver on a boat telling you that he’s a “divemaster,” depending on unit, agency, and instructor.
 

Tracy

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Just for the record, HUS is not made by APD. The company making the HUS hardware was bought by a big brand name entering in the CCR market and stopped selling the parts to APD. So APD stopped installing HUS to retrofit old units. Then APD recently sourced a different supplier for HUS and solved that issue.
The issue now is brexit and APD opened a subsidiary in The Nederlands in order to have a presence in European Union and solve customs issues

I am aware of the excuses. He bought a new unit with first year vision 2020 electronics. He had multiple failures that involved sending the unit back to the UK for service. The last one was when the HUS flooded and a new one couldn't be sourced to replace it. Since then, it has been, "we are coming out with our own unit, as soon as we are done, you will get one."
I don't care what the excuses are, it has been 5 years.
I stand by my statement of "They have no support in the US."
 

Tracy

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I thought Silent Diving handled service and support here in the U.S. Is that not the case? If I had to wait 5 months for a replacement part, I'd be pretty aggravated. Heck, 5 weeks is too long...

Aaron

P.S. Out of curiosity, what do you dive?

You are correct. Silent Diving handles support in the US.

There is no support for APD in the US.

Both of those statements are facts.

I dive an Optima primarily, I have back and chest mounts.
Overall, I like and recommend the unit. There are things I would prefer to be different, but it has been a solid unit with amazing support from the manufacturer.
I own and have dove a few others, every unit has drawbacks and features that are great. It is all a delicate compromise.
 

pop-n-jack

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I see your in NW Ohio, I am in Central Ohio. I fly a Hollis Prism 2, and did my certification thru Divers Incorporated out of Ann Arbor at White Star and Gilboa quarries. Like Tracy mentioned each unit is different, but I have been happy with mine thus far. I would recommend reaching out to Rich at Divers Inc., being localish to you its nice to have local support. Being in Ohio it is hard to recommend a place in TSUN, but I am.
 

Wibble

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I’ll echo what @tbone1004 and @rddvet have said. If you can find a used unit (and later sell towards what you paid for it) or rent one and then buy at cost-rent rate, I’d encourage it. There are perks and problems to any unit but you won’t necessarily understand until you’ve dived one for an extensive period. E.g I could encourage you to absolutely not get a Sidewinder or “pick unit” for a first unit, but depending on who you take your course with, you may or may not garner and appreciation for why and what subtleties come with it. I will add that resale value and number of units that pop up *could* be a factor for community value of the unit. I was offered a few Inspo for $1K (with the older electronics) each and turned it down and have found Poseidon 6 and 1-2 7s in the $2.5K and lower range and passed. That said, if you were surrounded by a community of Inspo or Evo, it’s not a bad choice, even after you pay to upgrade to modern or AV1 electronics. I’ll end with “instructor trainer” may mean the world but may also equate to a fellow diver on a boat telling you that he’s a “divemaster,” depending on unit, agency, and instructor.
Am assuming @Aaron Harmon is a rebreather novice. Would strongly advise against a second hand older rebreather unless you’ve got an "expert" with you and there’s a guarantee with the unit.

A close diving friend bought an Inspiration Vision which has cost him a small fortune to fix up: lungs fell to pieces, $1300 for a head service (electronics replaced), endless hose issues, cells, cylinder testing and cleaning, and a replacement case. He admits that it would have been better to have bought new…. It was out of the water for months.

It’s one thing if it’s your second or subsequent rebreather where you roughly know what you’re looking for.

On the other hand I bought a second hand Revo that was like new with only 5 dives registered and struck lucky. Had to replace both HP hoses and some cells, but saved a load of money over a new one.

Obligatory car analogy: mine was a low mileage 1 year old Volvo, his was 10 year old Ford with 150k on the clock. Could you tell the difference?
 
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