Why neutral buoyancy isn't

[MXGratefulDiver]

You see, you are all talking about the effects that excess weight has on me as a diver. It has no effect. I can paddle around under water with the rest of the bunch, not holding anyone up (actually I am usually out in front of the pack) and with an AL100 I can last as long as the rest even though I am an air hog. Probably because of my age. By the way the AL100 weighs 8 pounds more than the AL80. That's how I got the estimate of going 8 pounds over since I didn't change my lead weights. I didn't notice a thing. I get a kick out of the youngies fighting for breath when they board the boat after a dive. Most of them have no muscle stucture to talk about and no stamina. Probably because they have spent their lives playing video games and sitting in front of the computer all day, as it seems that some others of you also have. That or they have an ear ache or are sick at their stomache and can't make the second dive. Not me. I'm ready to go, excess weight or not. I love it. Maybe some day when I get a lot more diving experience I might be interested in fine tuning the weight issue. But for now I'm just enjoying the diving while I can do it. So, until then, I'll leave it to you perfectionists, big time instructors and anals to worry about it on your own. There are several of you who have made some disparaging remarks about me which I don't appreciate. To you I can only say: "Thank you for your interest in my welfare." I have run across this type many times in my life time. It's like it's my way and nothing else will do. I can handle it.

(sigh) ... a classic case of "ya don't know what ya don't know".

FWIW - the weight of your tank is a meaningless statistic underwater ... what you want to look at are its buoyancy characteristics. That AL100 you use is roughly 4.5 lbs more negative than the S80 made by the same manufacturer (Catalina) ... not 8 lbs. In fact, your weighting would be roughly the same with a Faber LP95 or OMS LP98, despite the fact that those tanks weigh 8 lbs less. Buoyancy isn't affected by weight ... it's affected by mass (weight and displacement). You were SUPPOSED to have learned that in your OW class.

As for why you're a gas hog, you keep telling us ... "paddling around" and "leading the pack" aren't things you should be proud of ... they're indicative of poor diving technique, and both are major reasons why some people use more air than they should. If you'd stop bragging and learn some decent technique, you could ditch that heavy 100 and get yourself a more reasonably sized tank ... it'd do wonders to improve your overall enjoyment of diving.

Or not ... if you insist on poor technique, by all means suit yourself ... but if you want to find out how good your buoyancy control really is, stop paddling sometime and see what happens. If you can't hold your position without moving your hands and feet, then you don't have any buoyancy control ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Flatliner]

Not to take anything away from the argument that will most likely never end, but...

Great OP, I appreciated it and am going to have my son read it as well.

Flatliner
aka Robert

 

[wedivebc]

Personally, I can't see where buoyancy is such a big deal.

I for one thank you. If you hadn't posted, this thread would have ended with a couple of "good job Rick"'s and I would have to find something else to read on a quiet morning in the shop.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

(sigh) ... a classic case of "ya don't know what ya don't know".

FWIW - the weight of your tank is a meaningless statistic underwater ... what you want to look at are its buoyancy characteristics. That AL100 you use is roughly 4.5 lbs more negative than the S80 made by the same manufacturer (Catalina) ... not 8 lbs. In fact, your weighting would be roughly the same with a Faber LP95 or OMS LP98, despite the fact that those tanks weigh 8 lbs less. Buoyancy isn't affected by weight ... it's affected by mass (weight and displacement). You were SUPPOSED to have learned that in your OW class.

As for why you're a gas hog, you keep telling us ... "paddling around" and "leading the pack" aren't things you should be proud of ... they're indicative of poor diving technique, and both are major reasons why some people use more air than they should. If you'd stop bragging and learn some decent technique, you could ditch that heavy 100 and get yourself a more reasonably sized tank ... it'd do wonders to improve your overall enjoyment of diving.

Or not ... if you insist on poor technique, by all means suit yourself ... but if you want to find out how good your buoyancy control really is, stop paddling sometime and see what happens. If you can't hold your position without moving your hands and feet, then you don't have any buoyancy control ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Good post Bob,
And to add my own thoughts paddling around in front of the pack is also a good way to make others use up more air than they need to trying to keep up with you. Good way to also get some not so friendly looks. I've had one insta buddy like this. After trying to keep up with his racing ahead, passing over interesting stuff, and looking like an idiot the way he was basically dog paddling and trying to imitate Mike Nelson by swimming with his hands I gave up. After getting on the boat 10 minutes after he did he asked what happened that I could not keep up. I told it was not a question of couldn't but wouldn't. And I would not be doing the second dive with him. BTW ending pressure in his tank from a starting one of 3000psi- right at 500. Mine from the same point- 1500. On a one hour reef dive with avg depth of 40 ft. I think I had more fun and saw alot more as well. Now that I have my DM card and insurance. I'll buddy up with an air hog no problem. But if it's on a trip I've paid for as well then it's 25-30 bucks a dive.

 

[SteveAD]

You see, you are all talking about the effects that excess weight has on me as a diver. It has no effect. I can paddle around under water with the rest of the bunch, not holding anyone up (actually I am usually out in front of the pack) and with an AL100 I can last as long as the rest even though I am an air hog. Probably because of my age. By the way the AL100 weighs 8 pounds more than the AL80. That's how I got the estimate of going 8 pounds over since I didn't change my lead weights. I didn't notice a thing. I get a kick out of the youngies fighting for breath when they board the boat after a dive. Most of them have no muscle stucture to talk about and no stamina. Probably because they have spent their lives playing video games and sitting in front of the computer all day, as it seems that some others of you also have. That or they have an ear ache or are sick at their stomache and can't make the second dive. Not me. I'm ready to go, excess weight or not. I love it. Maybe some day when I get a lot more diving experience I might be interested in fine tuning the weight issue. But for now I'm just enjoying the diving while I can do it. So, until then, I'll leave it to you perfectionists, big time instructors and anals to worry about it on your own. There are several of you who have made some disparaging remarks about me which I don't appreciate. To you I can only say: "Thank you for your interest in my welfare." I have run across this type many times in my life time. It's like it's my way and nothing else will do. I can handle it.

Before you gripe about people insulting your technique (or lack of it) take into account that this started off with a very well written piece about proper weighting and bouyancy control, that people who care about good technique could really gain something from, and YOU chimed in to essentially say "this BS doesn't really matter". If you are happy being a marginally skilled diver, then more power too you, no one is going to force you to get better. But don't get all defensive when you say that something is unimportant and people try to explain why they feel it is.

As for your paddling around with the rest of the bunch, and usually at the head of the pack, I wonder what that does to the visibility behind you.

Very nice piece Rick.

 

[wedivebc]

Before you gripe about people insulting your technique (or lack of it) take into account that this started off with a very well written piece about proper weighting and bouyancy control, that people who care about good technique could really gain something from, and YOU chimed in to essentially say "this BS doesn't really matter". If you are happy being a marginally skilled diver, then more power too you, no one is going to force you to get better. But don't get all defensive when you say that something is unimportant and people try to explain why they feel it is.

Very nice piece Rick.

 

[Garrobo]

Boy oh boy are you a bunch of suckers. Just can't leave it alone can you? You'll fall for anything.-----Marginally efficient diver.

 

[D_B]

Garrobo ... I've asked you some reasonable questions, and without any condescension whatsoever .. why not answer them :huh:
and all are from the perspective of a diver without many dives as well

 

[SteveAD]

I thought I was being generous. Would you prefer completly unskilled? That certainly seems to be what you are trying to prove.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Boy oh boy are you a bunch of suckers.

Hmmm ...

One of the reasons so many people frequent this board is because there are a lot of very experienced, very articulate instructors and divers here who are willing to share with you ... for free ... information that you'd otherwise have to pay a lot of money to get through other means.

That advice isn't offered because we consider ourselves perfectionists ... or know-it-alls ... it's offered because the longer we dive the more we see people getting injured or killed through ignorance ... and we'd genuinely like to prevent it. Or we see people struggling, and we'd genuinely like to help them get more enjoyment and relaxation out of their diving.

If you choose to disregard that ... or blow it off as unimportant ... then that's your choice. But it makes me wonder who's the real sucker ... because if you stay diving long enough, you WILL eventually want to learn these things. You can get it here for free, or pay for it later. The choice is yours ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)