Why Isn't There a Free Market for Scuba Equipment?

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Here is a brief description of the Colgate Doctrine:

"Colgate doctrine is a conservative principle in antitrust law that allows a company to decide, on its own, with whom to do business. Any company may unilaterally terminate business with any other company without triggering a violation of the antitrust laws.

The Colgate doctrine is essential to the rights of businesses in a free market economy. This important doctrine was established by the U.S. Supreme Court decision in United States v. Colgate Co., 250 U.S. 300 (1919).

The Model Jury Instruction on this issue is as follows (ABA 2005):

A supplier may go beyond announcing its suggested resale prices. It may announce that it will stop dealing with any distributors that do not follow its suggestions. Announcing such a policy, and then terminating distributors that do not follow the suggested prices, does not by itself constitute a resale price-fixing agreement. This is so because simply announcing and enforcing such a policy does not constitute an agreement between the supplier and anyone else.

This is so even if distributors follow the suggested resale prices because they fear they will be terminated if they do not follow the suggestions. ... To establish [unlawful] resale price-fixing in such a situation, the plaintiff must show that the distributor reached an agreement on price with the supplier, rather than merely followed the supplier's suggestion."

The statement I've boldened is a complete contradiction to the desired effect. This does nothing to protect my business. It would seem to me that I must prove a few things; 1. That Colgate hurts and impedes the ability to grow my business in a free market (which I can do,) 2. That Colgate is price fixing in that there is a signed agreement by and between manufacturers that we will honor their price fixing - even if this is inferred and not spelled out in such specific verbage (in other words, we all know what we're agreeing too) 3. That the scheme perpetrated by the manufacturer is so egregious, hurting and causing financial loss to the the consumer (not the retailer,) that to ignore it is a violation of Sherman, and in such spirit, regardless of Colgate, the court must rule in favor of consumer protection.

Colgate was not written to allow price fixing - it was written to allow businesses the right to conduct business in a manner without encumbrance. It was written to allow businesses to choose with whom they do business. The very sprit of the Colgate is violated with MAP and MARP pricing as it is not the MAP and MARP that violate Colgate (they violate Sherman,) it is the adopted manufacturer policies (adopted to do an end around Sherman) cojoined with MAP and MARP that prove collusion within and between manufacturers.

Simply Put: MAP and MARP violate Sherman
The MAP and MARP Policies which spell out how the company will decide with whom to do business violate Colgate in that they are conjoined with MAP and MARP.

The spirit of the law was not to allow a businesses decision on whom to conduct business with to be based solely on whether that business blindly follows violations of other laws (Sherman,) but rather to allow companies to choose to do business with only those they felt would represent their best interest, represent and sell their products in the best manner, make efforts to help their business grow and prosper. To think otherwise and to rule in any other manner the court would have to be blind.

Stores such as ours and LP's can clearly be shown to have the best interest of everyone in mind. The consumer (by providing the best pricing and value,) the manufacturer by increasing orders and making higher volume purchases from the manufacturers and yes, ourselves and the economy by growing and expanding our businesses and providing jobs for Americans.

I urge you - if you want to help save this great dying sport - get involved to enact change. Rising prices are of course the norm in any activity these days, which is why it's more important than ever to stomp out 300% margins and bring them back down to reality. If we don't do something to make the sport affordable for a family of 4, the sport will be dead in less than 5 years. Most manufacturers will fold, most dive shops will be gone and with MAP and MARP in place, smart businessmen like myself will not be motivated to expand and fill the void left behind.

Eliminate MAP and MARP and our concept stores can pop up around the country like Dominos Pizza. Showroom floor computers - shop your best online price - then walk out the door with instant gratification via our onsite price matching. Gear always in stock - not "we have to order it for you." No waiting a month for repairs... repairs guaranteed in two weeks or they're free...

This is not an advertisement for us... Dive shop owners across the country are encouraged to adopt this policy and fight against MAP and MARP. If you want to survive - this is what you must do. Radical change is needed to fix this industry - so you can participate and make history - or sit on the sidelines twiddling your thumbs and become a part of history.
 
I would agree - except that a few of your points are wrong:

1. You may disagree - but just like anything else in this world - when you buy something (pay your hard earned money for it,) you own it don't you. When a retailer buys a product, pays the manufacturer - he/she owns it. He or she can do whatever they want with it - upto and including giving it away free. If the manufacturer holds ownership - meaning the product can be returned by the retailer to the manufacturer for full credit - then I would agree that the retailer can be held accountable for pricing.

The problem is MAP pricing makes it harder for retailers to move product because they can not advertise it at a price to lure in buyers. If Walmart for example were held to a MAP price on Coke... you'd never go to Walmart to get 3 - 12 packs for $10.00. You may actually decide not to buy coke at $4.99 a 12 pack. You may switch brands. In this example, MAP hurts you because you now feel priced out of purchasing Coke and even though you like Coke you may not drink it anymore. Coke sales plummet and so do Walmarts.

2. Yes, they have the right to control distribution - and even their own pricing - but not a right to dictate to a business owner how much that owner can sell it for. That is where the problem comes in. As a retailer, I don't question their prices to me. They get their money one way or the other. If they can set their price... common sense alone says I should be able to set mine. We are each privately owned businesses buying products. They buy raw goods and make a product. The manufacturer of those raw goods is not dictating to them how much they can resell their product for. Think about it.

3. To say this particular brand is in high demand would be an errant statement. I rarely have anyone ask me for the brand or why we don't carry it... but when they do ask... I'm happy to inform them of the price fixing and how the customer can buy equal quality gear for far less money.

But by signing a dealership contract, you give them the right to dictate prices to you. Thats the point here. No one is forced to become a dealer. By doing so, they agree to the conditions set by the dealer. In return the shop is allowed to sell a product which will bring them profit due to being a popular brand name. And I dont think its right to be a dealer for a company with which you have such disagreement with you are willing to publicy destroy their reputation. If you dont like their policies, dont sell their products.
 
Ebay, TDS for sale threads, and the for sale thread here. Those are your friends. :)

There are a log of really good deals available if you are patient and go after them.


Over the past few weeks I have spent a good bit of time trying to become educated on the nuances of different pieces of scuba equipment with a focus on regulators and BCs. One thing that I have learned is that there is something for everyone out there at prices ranging from reasonably inexpensive to "it costs how much?" which means, to me at least, that you should be able to find some that meets your needs and your budget.

At the same time, however, I am struck by the fact that the price is the price is the price at every LDS for a specific item which makes me wonder whether manufacturers really want new divers to really get into the sport or for experienced divers to trade up. I can understand how Apple is able to keep iPod prices consistent between Wal-Mart, Target, Circuit City and Costco, but there are dozens of scuba vendors selling nearly identical products (at least to me), so why don't we see price competition at the retail level?

Is there a reason why Seaquest (not singling them out...just top of mind) dealers in a metro area are not allowed to compete based on things like customer care, staff knowledge, post-sale service and support, and training programs while letting them set the selling price for a Titan LX or Legend which provides a reasonable profit? I guess that this might drive some LDS out of business, but is that necessarily a bad thing? Good shops will do more volume at lower markups...isn't that what free markets are all about? Wouldn't you expect a manufacturer to reward and encourage this type of business practice?

I have spent the past 15 winters as a ski instructor, ski patroller and manufacturer's rep and see first hand how price fixing, collusion, poor marketing and short-sighted management decisions have led to a steep decline in the sport. I have really enjoyed my experience diving so far and look forward to jumping in with both feet, but see many of the same traits in the scuba industry.
 
Here is a brief description of the Colgate Doctrine:

"Colgate doctrine is a conservative principle in antitrust law that allows a company to decide, on its own, with whom to do business. Any company may unilaterally terminate business with any other company without triggering a violation of the antitrust laws.

The Colgate doctrine is essential to the rights of businesses in a free market economy. This important doctrine was established by the U.S. Supreme Court decision in United States v. Colgate Co., 250 U.S. 300 (1919).

The Model Jury Instruction on this issue is as follows (ABA 2005):

A supplier may go beyond announcing its suggested resale prices. It may announce that it will stop dealing with any distributors that do not follow its suggestions. Announcing such a policy, and then terminating distributors that do not follow the suggested prices, does not by itself constitute a resale price-fixing agreement. This is so because simply announcing and enforcing such a policy does not constitute an agreement between the supplier and anyone else.

This is so even if distributors follow the suggested resale prices because they fear they will be terminated if they do not follow the suggestions. ... To establish [unlawful] resale price-fixing in such a situation, the plaintiff must show that the distributor reached an agreement on price with the supplier, rather than merely followed the supplier's suggestion."

The statement I've boldened is a complete contradiction to the desired effect. This does nothing to protect my business. It would seem to me that I must prove a few things; 1. That Colgate hurts and impedes the ability to grow my business in a free market (which I can do,) 2. That Colgate is price fixing in that there is a signed agreement by and between manufacturers that we will honor their price fixing - even if this is inferred and not spelled out in such specific verbage (in other words, we all know what we're agreeing too) 3. That the scheme perpetrated by the manufacturer is so egregious, hurting and causing financial loss to the the consumer (not the retailer,) that to ignore it is a violation of Sherman, and in such spirit, regardless of Colgate, the court must rule in favor of consumer protection.

Colgate was not written to allow price fixing - it was written to allow businesses the right to conduct business in a manner without encumbrance. It was written to allow businesses to choose with whom they do business. The very sprit of the Colgate is violated with MAP and MARP pricing as it is not the MAP and MARP that violate Colgate (they violate Sherman,) it is the adopted manufacturer policies (adopted to do an end around Sherman) cojoined with MAP and MARP that prove collusion within and between manufacturers.

Simply Put: MAP and MARP violate Sherman
The MAP and MARP Policies which spell out how the company will decide with whom to do business violate Colgate in that they are conjoined with MAP and MARP.

The spirit of the law was not to allow a businesses decision on whom to conduct business with to be based solely on whether that business blindly follows violations of other laws (Sherman,) but rather to allow companies to choose to do business with only those they felt would represent their best interest, represent and sell their products in the best manner, make efforts to help their business grow and prosper. To think otherwise and to rule in any other manner the court would have to be blind.

Stores such as ours and LP's can clearly be shown to have the best interest of everyone in mind. The consumer (by providing the best pricing and value,) the manufacturer by increasing orders and making higher volume purchases from the manufacturers and yes, ourselves and the economy by growing and expanding our businesses and providing jobs for Americans.

I urge you - if you want to help save this great dying sport - get involved to enact change. Rising prices are of course the norm in any activity these days, which is why it's more important than ever to stomp out 300% margins and bring them back down to reality. If we don't do something to make the sport affordable for a family of 4, the sport will be dead in less than 5 years. Most manufacturers will fold, most dive shops will be gone and with MAP and MARP in place, smart businessmen like myself will not be motivated to expand and fill the void left behind.

Eliminate MAP and MARP and our concept stores can pop up around the country like Dominos Pizza. Showroom floor computers - shop your best online price - then walk out the door with instant gratification via our onsite price matching. Gear always in stock - not "we have to order it for you." No waiting a month for repairs... repairs guaranteed in two weeks or they're free...

This is not an advertisement for us... Dive shop owners across the country are encouraged to adopt this policy and fight against MAP and MARP. If you want to survive - this is what you must do. Radical change is needed to fix this industry - so you can participate and make history - or sit on the sidelines twiddling your thumbs and become a part of history.

Colgate is an important case, as have been the roughly 100 cases decided on anti-trust and price fixing since Colgate. The key case that closely resembles the VERTICAL price control situation that exists in the scuba industry is Leegin v PSKS, argued last year. The current Supreme Court clearly does not view vertical price controls as per se violation of the Sherman act. In fact, they completely eliminated the per se evaluation of individual cases, instead replacing it with the famous "rule of reason" used in most court "price" cases in the past 100 years. You can't gain much information from the music industry cases or the oil industry cases. These involve very particular, mostly innate issues specific to only those cases.

There are some retailers who have done EXTENSIVE investigation of the issues you relate. Some of us have invested EXTENSIVE treasure in these investigations. Some of us have EXTENSIVE evidence to support our positions. It appears that all of this is immaterial in the face of Leegin, combined with the power of Colgate. While we might disagree with the direction of the current case law on vertical price controls, the case law is what the case law is. Petition and "banging on the court house door" is not going to change it. And Congress is not going to change it. They all view this as "settled" law.

The slip opinion for Leegin v PSKS can be viewed here.

Phil Ellis
 
Give it time... give it time... While they may not be authorized dealers for Apeks and Scubapro... the manufacturers are fully aware of how LP gets the merchandise and do little or nothing about... until an LDS catches them (the manufacturer) in the act... why not move their inventory?..

well, when Aqualung came out with the new ACD feature on their regulators, LP was shipping them before the regular LDS's could even get them in stock....

so that right there shows that AL is shipping direct (or indirect) to LP's back door, or some shaddow company wharehouse......

It's not rocket science to figure out how LP gets some of its product from manufacturers. Yet then the manufacturers will "officially" lie about it and tell LDS's they are trying to stop the flow. Some drink the kool aid, but most have gotten smarter and don't even bother asking anymore....
 
Big name manufacturers use similar tactics in other industries as well and in the end, the market beats them, it just takes time. IBM has rules that only the reseller who registers a customer can provide discounts off MSRP, any other reseller can only sell at MSRP and they use their shipping and configuration process to control it. While that sounds great, IBM is no longer a significant player in many spaces where there are other manufacturers that sell products that compete and the list of products that are unique to IBM gets smaller every year as other players find ways to either duplicate or provide comprable products.

All of the retailers that are fighting this battle I salute you. At some point one or more of the manufacturers is going to realize the reality of the situation and see opportunity to increase their market share, then the floodgates will open and those that don't adapt will fail.
 
And I dont think its right to be a dealer for a company with which you have such disagreement with you are willing to publicy destroy their reputation. If you dont like their policies, dont sell their products.

Stating facts should and would not destroy a manufacturers reputation if the facts did not exist; i.e. MAP and MARP pricing. If the manufacturers don't want to draw the ire of the consumer, then they shouldn't have price fixing policies in place.

We are doing nothing to their reputations that they haven't done to themselves. We are simply shedding light on their actions so that consumers can make educated decisions regarding whom (which manufacturers) they want to do business with.

If consumers think they are being hosed - they are being hosed. The manufacturers should not have policies that hose them if they don't want to have their reputations tarnished. End MAP... allow FREE trade, and the reputations of those who budge will be rewarded with great sales numbers by consumers appreciative of the fact they are trying to help the industry and offer quality products at a great price point.
 
Stating facts should and would not destroy a manufacturers reputation if the facts did not exist; i.e. MAP and MARP pricing. If the manufacturers don't want to draw the ire of the consumer, then they shouldn't have price fixing policies in place.

We are doing nothing to their reputations that they haven't done to themselves. We are simply shedding light on their actions so that consumers can make educated decisions regarding whom (which manufacturers) they want to do business with.

If consumers think they are being hosed - they are being hosed. The manufacturers should not have policies that hose them if they don't want to have their reputations tarnished. End MAP... allow FREE trade, and the reputations of those who budge will be rewarded with great sales numbers by consumers appreciative of the fact they are trying to help the industry and offer quality products at a great price point.
Thats private information, not something to disclose to the consumer. Did you or did you not sign a contract with the dealer that you adhere to their policies maybe even including keeping their business practices private? Perhaps they should sue you? Again, Im with you on free market, but part of that free market is that a business is free to have the policies it wants. You cant not argue that there is no competition on dive equipement. Oceanic et al are popular because their products are good and set at a price people are willing to pay.
 
Stating facts should and would not destroy a manufacturers reputation if the facts did not exist; i.e. MAP and MARP pricing. If the manufacturers don't want to draw the ire of the consumer, then they shouldn't have price fixing policies in place.

We are doing nothing to their reputations that they haven't done to themselves. We are simply shedding light on their actions so that consumers can make educated decisions regarding whom (which manufacturers) they want to do business with.

If consumers think they are being hosed - they are being hosed. The manufacturers should not have policies that hose them if they don't want to have their reputations tarnished. End MAP... allow FREE trade, and the reputations of those who budge will be rewarded with great sales numbers by consumers appreciative of the fact they are trying to help the industry and offer quality products at a great price point.
Sounds good to me. It also seems as if one approach to the whole issue is to convince the court that retail price should not be allowed as a Colgate consideration, just as many characteristics (race, gender) are off limits for other forms of discrimination. Any agreement between manufacturer and seller that includes a requirement of adhering to "suggested" pricing seems (at least to me) to be an example of price fixing. Manufacturers are not allowed to require sellers to sell only to white males, so the Colgate concept has its clear limits. If Sherman was designed for the consumer, then apparently the court needs to be reminded of that and the fact that there are already a lot of limitations on the Colgate concept. Price, being central to Sherman, should be a prohibited consideration, too.
 
Thats private information, not something to disclose to the consumer. Did you or did you not sign a contract with the dealer that you adhere to their policies maybe even including keeping their business practices private? Perhaps they should sue you? Again, Im with you on free market, but part of that free market is that a business is free to have the policies it wants. You cant not argue that there is no competition on dive equipement. Oceanic et al are popular because their products are good and set at a price people are willing to pay.

Actually having read and reread a variety of contracts from different manufacturers, I see no mention of confidentiality as it relates to MAP or MARP pricing. Confidentiality would most likely trigger a deceptive business practice suit and be one more piece of evidence that not only does price fixing go on - but that efforts are made to keep it from the consumer.

One line from the brand you mention... line 23 of the Terms and Conditions of being a dealer reads:

"Neither party shall be liable to the other party for payment, repayment, or damages relating to profits, whether present or future, expenses, investment commitments, or for any other reason whatsoever..."

This seems to be an agreement between the parties that neither can - or will hold the other liable for anything. Simple termination of the agreement can be made at any time by either party.

Not within any of the 23 paragraphs of the document is there mention of confidentiality.
 
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