Why is this not the standard?

[nimoh]

"If it's not Hogarthian, it's not right. If you're not doing it right, don't do it at all."

I wasn't around (as a diver) back then, I did do a quick google search for the article that you are referring to, and took a quick look at it, and I agreed with a lot of it, right up until the last sentence, which you quoted

Perhaps, it was the correct statement back then (not sure when sidemount came about). However, it was probably short sighted on GI3s part to make this statement, since everything evolves.

 

[boulderjohn]

I think part of the problem started with the effort to educate the recreational community. This essay entitled "Making Recreational Divers 'Better,'" shows the thinking back then.: Making Recreational Divers Better

The last section advises DIR divers who are "forced" to dive with non-DIR divers to show them the DIR system in the hope that it will make them safer divers. I don't think it would be hard for such a diver to become a bit too zealous in following that advice, and I am sure some did.

 

[elan]

I think part of the problem started with the effort to educate the recreational community. This essay entitled "Making Recreational Divers 'Better,'" shows the thinking back then.: Making Recreational Divers Better

The last section advises DIR divers who are "forced" to dive with non-DIR divers to show them the DIR system in the hope that it will make them safer divers. I don't think it would be hard for such a diver to become a bit too zealous in following that advice, and I am sure some did.

The last section goes to far in conclusions IMHO

 

[TSandM]

There are certainly things that were (and are) viewed as wrong. Deep air is one. Methods of identifying regulators by color or other idiosyncratic identifiers, or identifying gas mixtures by where they are placed on the body, are viewed as fraught with hazard, as they have been implicated in a number of accidents. Diving profoundly overweighted and without redundant buoyancy, as people diving thin wetsuits with heavy steel tanks are doing, is viewed as wrong, because it has killed people.

In general, the GUE configuration and set of diving strategies is a set of good choices that work together to yield safe and stress-free diving in a wide variety of settings, ranging from simple recreational dives to deep open water or long cave penetrations. It doesn't work for everything . . . sidemount cave has already been mentioned, but solo diving after golf balls is not a good setting for the system, either.

The "Doing it right" quotation, which is widely cited and widely resented, really had to do with saying that, if you are going to dive, you shouldn't make excuses about poorly chosen or poorly maintained gear, or poor diving skills, or lousy buddies. If you're going to do it, do it right; give it thought, be careful, make good plans, and spend the time necessary to develop good diving skills. Would anybody argue with that?

 

[cascas]

I think part of the problem started with the effort to educate the recreational community. This essay entitled "Making Recreational Divers 'Better,'" shows the thinking back then.: Making Recreational Divers Better

The last section advises DIR divers who are "forced" to dive with non-DIR divers to show them the DIR system in the hope that it will make them safer divers. I don't think it would be hard for such a diver to become a bit too zealous in following that advice, and I am sure some did.

I think there is over zealousness on both sides... DIR divers thinking they're doing it more than right and non DIR divers who think that in that case they must be doing it wrong.... Both sides imho haven't understood what it is actually about...

 

[drrich2]

The "Doing it right" quotation, which is widely cited and widely resented, really had to do with saying that, if you are going to dive, you shouldn't make excuses about poorly chosen or poorly maintained gear, or poor diving skills, or lousy buddies. If you're going to do it, do it right; give it thought, be careful, make good plans, and spend the time necessary to develop good diving skills. Would anybody argue with that?

I've seen the debate over whether the term DIR implies/insinuates that the DIR way is 'right' and other ways are 'wrong' come up on the forum before. I've been thinking it over in the context of U.S. culture. My thinking:

1.) Often when an authority figure such as a parent, teacher or coach tells a kid to 'do something right,' it's implied that there is one expected way to do it, and that's the way it's demanded the child handle the task. It's also implied that one or more other ways are being forbidden.

2.) That said, it can be taken to mean the philosophy TS&M reflected.

3.) I suspect it may also entail a degree of pride in the system, a belief that the DIR way is indeed a 'right way' to do things (even if not the only way). Given that humans have a 'mastery drive' and take satisfaction in learning and performing tasks well, that's understandable. Of course, that same pride can lead to suspicion by outsiders that DIR folks view themselves as part of an elite group. Elitism sometimes has negative connotations.

4.) DIR as a term is short, snappy, catchy and sticks in the mind, plus it conveys something of the essence of what it means (unlike 'Hogarthian'). From a marketing perspective, it's an effective label. And the controversy it stirs up adds to the attention; remember someone long ago saying there's no such thing as bad publicity? Not true in the literal sense, but there's some truth to the idea.

Richard.

 

[DaleC]

The "Doing it right" quotation, which is widely cited and widely resented, really had to do with saying that, if you are going to dive, you shouldn't make excuses about poorly chosen or poorly maintained gear, or poor diving skills, or lousy buddies. If you're going to do it, do it right; give it thought, be careful, make good plans, and spend the time necessary to develop good diving skills. Would anybody argue with that?

Not me, as long as it can be applied to my kind of diving: "If you're going to solo dive, do it right; give it thought, be careful, make good plans, and spend the time necessary to develop good solo diving skills." If I did that would a certain community consider my approach to diving "doing it right"?

If my small circle of dive buddies all adopted longhoses and air2's and trained to use them well, to a certain community, would our approach to diving be considered to be "doing it right"?

If my buddy and I were avid vintage equipment divers and chose to use doublehose regs with no octos (relying on buddy breathing) or SPG's (relying on J valves) with proper training and maintenance, to a certain community, would we be "doing it right"?

As long as that would all be considered to be "doing it right" I have no problems.

 

[TSandM]

Dale, those are not serious questions. You know that the GUE/DIR dive community does not like solo diving, and would never countenance diving without a pressure gauge . . . nor would I, in today's world, say that was "doing it right". We have pressure gauges now for a reason, and they improve safety and allow dive planning. If you want to eschew them as part of a retro activity, that's great -- but would you recommend doing so as a reasonable, general approach to diving for the average recreational diver? I think you wouldn't.

GUE/DIR has an approach to diving that mandates certain equipment and certain procedures. This does not mean that all other equipment and procedures are felt to be wrong; it means they are not GUE. Some deviations from the GUE-described style of diving are viewed simply as different; some are viewed as suboptimal, and a few are viewed as increasing diving risk without concomitant benefit (otherwise known as "doing it wrong").

If you want to create a circle of dive buddies who all use long hoses and Air2's -- and who practice with them and are facile in their use -- I wouldn't have a problem diving with that group. Donate the primary; that's the basic principle. As long as I get the air I need, and you can manage your own backup, all's good. It's not GUE, but in MY world, it's a way of "doing it right".

 

[DaleC]

So, it's doing it right if it fits in your paradigm but not if it doesn't? I enjoy solo diving and can competently use a J valve for some forms of diving. For both of those activities there is a "correct" or "workable" way to do the dive so I would say it's reasonable to say there is a way to do it right (according to your definition).

To a vintage equipment diver the gear obsessed modern diver appears to be approaching diving all wrong, the right way is minimal reliance on gear and maximum reliance on skill. There is also too much emphasis on optimal conditions when a skill that many divers could benefit from is being able to operate in sub optimal conditions.

To a solo diver the over reliance on someone else to resolve ones issues can be seen as approaching diving all wrong. Doing it right would involve a much larger emphasis on self reliance. Especially in today's "real world" climate of recreational diving.

I could counter that forcing the average recreational diver to adopt cave diving standards in order to maintain an artificial construct such as standardization is just as off the wall too. Standardization doesn't exist in 99% of rec diving. When you show up with a long hose in many places, you are the oddity that needs to be "figured out".


The point is that there is no "one" type of diving or one set of skills/equipment that addresses all aspects of the sport so there really can't be one way to "do it right", unless, as you stated earlier, it is to approach whatever activity one pursues with for-thought, skill and common sense.

And yes, there is a way to both dive a J valve safely and allow for dive planning. It involves understanding the limits of the equipment, matching those limits to the proper environment and not violating the conditions that allow for safe use... sort of like cave diving with different mixes and scooters. No, I would give the average rec diver a J valve without understanding those issues but neither would I send them into a cave with a scooter and some stages.

Here is a video I just put together of a dive I did last weekend. I am diving vintage equipment, no BC, solo and videoing myself, and while I do have an SPG (it is 40 years old though), the same dive could easily have been done without it. I don't consider myself a particularly skilled diver and have never taken a class beyond AOW but observe the general trim, buoyancy control and comfort underwater. Would you suggest this to the average recreational diver or is it too "fringy" to be applicable?

[video=youtube;EJZA1WYQbdI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJZA1WYQbdI&list=UU5zvhnU0XYpf_cadpYJYkhQ& index=1&feature=plcp[/video]

 

[lowviz]

Beautiful post, Dale.

The only thing that you are lacking is a cadre of bobble-heads confirming your superiority.