Why is tech suddenly the in thing for new divers?

[Hoyden]

I think the "fundamental" issue is that the OP thinks that bp/w, drysuits and HID lights are tech gear - I would even say that doubles in and of themselves aren't tech gear. I use all of those things on a regular basis on dives that bear no relationship to "tech" diving. I teach recreational scuba classes in a bp/w and a drysuit (if the conditions call for it) - and carry an HID light if the dives call for it (say AOW) - good equipment is not just for tech diving any more

BTW, Fundamentals of diving is not a tech course.

Jackie

 

[gypsyjim]

Part of the problem, from a continuing conversation I've had with an LDS owner/friend is that there is very very little, if any profit in instructing. The courses do seem rather expensive, but by the time the shop's expenses for instructors, equipment, possible pool rental, and all the other normal costs associated with any business, are taken into consideration, a well taught class of 6 to 10 students can be just about a break even undertaking. This is assuming the shop is not just a "certification mill", but actually takes the time to instruct and produce safe divers.

The real profit the shop hopes for is in sales. Each student who certifies and then purchases their gear from the certifying LDS helps the LDS survive. New divers who continue to dive with the group and continue also to upgrade, or add to their equipment as their skills and techniques develope are the long term goal.
This is the backbone of the successful LDS.
The LDS is hoping that new students will learn, ask questions, watch instructors, and decide they want the same gear they've trained on, or seen in use. Every student who shows up in brand new gear purchased elsewhere, or gear they've purchased over the "net" is lost potential for the LDS, that really hurts their bottom line. Those students who do not continue on as divers because they find it is not for them are another lost potential, but at least by starting with the rental gear of the LDS they don't leave with the bitter taste of being pushed into expensive purchases for no reason.

It does sound as though some LDSs aren't willing to take the chance of losing any sales, and "loading up" the new students with every expensive goodie they can. That leaves a very bad taste in the mouth!

 

[John_B]

The better question is what's eating at you? You wouldn't happen to be affiliated with H, would you?

To me it's over overkill to dive doubles in DIR fashion when there aren't any caves or wrecks in this area. I also think it would be wise for newer divers to learn and discover the types of diving they wish to pursuit rather than steered towards a particular style or approach that early on.

Yes, I'm aware of recreational DIR divers. I agree with some of the DIR techniques/logics but not everything.

The DIR view says you need to have certain equipment to be able do some of the skills, and the skills are what's important. If its newer divers using a backplate, paddle fins and the primary on a long hose that you have a problem with, we'll have to agree to disagree. As other posters have said on this thread, a BP/W doesn't make you a technical diver.

I'm still trying to figure out whether its the so-called "tech" gear that you have a problem with, or if its just that some newer divers are buying Halcyon setups that you think are overpriced. After all, there are a lot of dive shops that "oversell" new divers on some pretty expensive "recreational" gear (see post 15).

BTW, I think I have two SPGs with the blue H on them, and a couple of their hoses, that's about it.

 

[FishOutUvH2O]

Second, diving Halcyon gear does not make you a jerk, but there seem to be a lot of jerks diving Halcyon gear. See the difference?

Not as it pertains to the issue of you stereotyping an individual based on their gear manufacturer. So, no, I don't see a difference.

But, I also don't understand the OP's issue either. One shop's practices do not make a trend. And it only seems prudent that a shop choosing to focus on a particular training curriculum would also focus on any equipment associated with that training. If they've chosen to do it in an area where the economic demographic can support their business model?! Well, that just seems like smart business.

This board has a duality that must just spin a new diver's mind. On one hand you have technically trained divers pushing newbies toward a BP/W as their first rig because they say it's the best, most versatile BC out there for all types of diving. On the other hand you have technically trained divers telling them that the moment they do buy that BP/W they're just "tech-wannabees," buying gear that's overkill just to look "cool," or the LDS that recommends or favors this type of equipment for a new diver is somehow unethical and/or thieves. Basically telling a new diver that you need to stay away from any shop that would recommend "tech gear" to a new diver.

For the record: I define "tech gear" as any gear most often associated with divers doing technical dives that you wouldn't normally see in the general recreational diving community. It's a "loose" definition I know, but it serves its purpose.

 

[Rick Inman]

On one hand you have technically trained divers pushing newbies toward a BP/W as their first rig because they say it's the best, most versatile BC out there for all types of diving. On the other hand you have technically trained divers telling them that the moment they do buy that BP/W they're just "tech-wannabees," buying gear that's overkill just to look "cool,"...

Actually, I find that it's the recreational divers NOT in BP/W that call recreational divers in BP/W tech-wannabees. Usually divers who sport the hog-style rig, be it recreational divers or technical divers, welcome the new diver's who choose this configuration.

Besides, if you really want to buy gear just for that "cool" look, there is no choice other than a CCR.

 

[HowardE]

Besides, if you really want to buy gear just for that "cool" look, there is no choice other than a CCR.

Definitely.

 

[FishOutUvH2O]

Actually, I find that it's the recreational divers NOT in BP/W that call recreational divers in BP/W tech-wannabees. Usually divers who sport the hog-style rig, be it recreational divers or technical divers, welcome the new diver's who choose this configuration.

I'm giving new divers the benefit of the doubt that they're smart enough to see through the posters that are just ignorantly spouting off. And while I used the word "wannabee" my primary point in there was that there are a few experienced divers calling the equipment overkill for a new diver. This isn't a generalization, and I realize it's not many, but it only takes a couple to cause confusion. I also acknowledge that this stems from a legitimate differing of opinions. But my overall point is that to a new diver researching this issue on the board, it can get confusing trying to decide if it really is the best option, or if it's just overkill.

Besides, if you really want to buy gear just for that "cool" look, there is no choice other than a CCR.

If that's the case, I'm stuck in the "dork diver" group for a while. Because at my skill level CCR is the abbreviated name of a late '60's early '70's rock band, not a viable underwater breathing "thingy."

 

[HowardE]

I am new to diving - close to 100 dives, and I totally get the bp/w thingy. In fact, I now dive with a bp/w setup. However my shop heavily promotes tech/dir to new/first time divers. The shop is in an area where people have disposable income. I shake my head when newbies come in and the shop decks them with Halcyon doubles, HID lights, and dry suit and get them in a fundamental classs.

Is it me or is tech and diving doubles the new in thing?

Actually diving doubles is an old thing... But...

It's not you... It's your shop.

If this is as you describe, then they should be ashamed of themselves.

The reality of diving is... Most divers are "look at the pretty fishy" divers, where the gear may cost around $2000 all in (but you could probably get outfitted for less than $1500)? Tech Gear (3 or more sets of regulators, doubles, stages, bailout, lights, reels, etc) you're looking at the neighborhood of $5000 if not more. So It sounds to me like this is a way to find a profit center in "today's economy"?

Tech diving is a very small portion of the diving community as a whole. However, you'll find that on internet forums... this may not be the case.

But take a step back and look... Tec divers so into it... they have to talk about it when they're not diving?? Go figure.

 

[JeffG]

besides, if you really want to buy gear just for that "cool" look, there is no choice other than a ccr.

lol..

 

[John_B]

Actually diving doubles is an old thing... But...

It's not you... It's your shop.

If this is as you describe, then they should be ashamed of themselves.

The reality of diving is... Most divers are "look at the pretty fishy" divers, where the gear may cost around $2000 all in (but you could probably get outfitted for less than $1500)? Tech Gear (3 or more sets of regulators, doubles, stages, bailout, lights, reels, etc) you're looking at the neighborhood of $5000 if not more. So It sounds to me like this is a way to find a profit center in "today's economy"?

Tech diving is a very small portion of the diving community as a whole. However, you'll find that on internet forums... this may not be the case.

But take a step back and look... Tec divers so into it... they have to talk about it when they're not diving?? Go figure.

If I'm getting this right, I think this is a shop that specifically supports some of their divers to move towards GUE Fundamentals.

If that's the case, then I think the OP is overstating the amount of gear being sold to newer divers.

At the Fundies/Essentials level, you don't need three sets of regs or stages or bailouts. For the rec pass the requirements would be BP/W, regs, paddle fins, bottom timer of some sort, an SMB/reel, and backup lights. That's probably going to cost less than someone geared up in a ProQD, Legends, Slingshots, D9, and C8 eLED light. Even if the BP/W has blue H's on the harness.

Maybe for the tech pass you'd need doubles (so another wing) and an expensive light. I sincerely doubt anyone who is new is being pushed for a tech pass out of the gate, they are probably being sent away to practice buoyancy and propulsion and ascents and s-drills and shooting a bag first.

Because the OP is being vague about the shop he's complaining about, we can't nail down how much of this is real vs. how much is vague enough so nobody can be sure how much gear we are really talking about.