Why is apeks the best regulator ever conceived by human mind???

[will_tekkie]

I don't agree with engineering of scuba regulators being "simple" by its very nature, although that does seem to be the approach taken by some manufacturers and users.

If I were a high muckity-muck at Scubapro right now (or to be honest, Atomic Aquatics, Apeks, Aqua Lung or any other brand) I'd be hiring consulting firms to use computational fluid dynamics (CFD) as well as setting my own standards for compressed breathing gas supply quality depending on the dive conditions to be encountered.

Industrial regulators, where "size matters" only in terms of "will it fit in the piping", can make great use of large diaphragm diameters to produce many pounds force from a limited number of pounds per sqare inch pressure change (Will Tekkie, since you're in Europe, I'll leave the conversion to SI units as an exercise for the student . . . ). In scuba, what manufacturer today would you expect to be succesful whose design and marketing strategy might be "We have the most humongous diaphragm design on the planet! Cures "wing wrap" with bladder style BC's as it's a bigger pancake than the surface area of the wings!!!"

Rebreathers, to me, seem an application that literally screams for redundant microprocessor based monitoring and control, but I haven't explored that well enough yet to feel I can truly intelligently comment there.

Well, WarmWaterDiver friend....i can´t understand the relationship between the subject we´re talking about and the things you wrote ..sorry maybe because today is saturday night....maybe you can teach us about SI, english units and how calculate the force applied for the diafragm (be care to get the proper force units..)..i´m sure everyone here will learn a lot....my suggestion if you have been so many problems using industrial regulators, check out the applications catalog or ask for the seller advice instead..some failures in certain applications can be dangerous..regulators size sometimes are VERY important for some applications (outside the scuba world ) well beyond if these simply fit in a pipe.

i don´t want to begin a trolley..this forum is pretty good for friendly not personal comments... :54:

 

[WarmWaterDiver]

Originally posted by Will Tekkie,

"if we see the regulator market for natural gas, air supply for industry, even pressure control of water in our house they are tending to be rely on diafragm design mostly.."


"regulator engineering for scuba diving is relatively a minor mechanics compared with others brand of engineering so i´m sure if enough money and working minds works on this ..other and by far improved gear will see the sunlight...since the gagnan-cousteau reg the only true and revolucionary advance in scuba gear has been the dive computer ( some people can be though that BC´s have to be included as well.)....maybe the next will be a very old known..rebreathers..."

This was what I was responding to - and I hope you had a great Saturday night. Being someone who is an engineer and works with industrial regulators, I was seeking clarifications of your contribution, and adding my perspective and experience to the thread (which is what I thought such forums are for), not personally attacking.

 

[will_tekkie]

Originally posted by Will Tekkie,

"if we see the regulator market for natural gas, air supply for industry, even pressure control of water in our house they are tending to be rely on diafragm design mostly.."


"regulator engineering for scuba diving is relatively a minor mechanics compared with others brand of engineering so i´m sure if enough money and working minds works on this ..other and by far improved gear will see the sunlight...since the gagnan-cousteau reg the only true and revolucionary advance in scuba gear has been the dive computer ( some people can be though that BC´s have to be included as well.)....maybe the next will be a very old known..rebreathers..."

This was what I was responding to - and I hope you had a great Saturday night. Being someone who is an engineer and works with industrial regulators, I was seeking clarifications of your contribution, and adding my perspective and experience to the thread (which is what I thought such forums are for), not personally attacking.

Industrial regulators, where "size matters" only in terms of "will it fit in the piping", can make great use of large diaphragm diameters to produce many pounds force from a limited number of pounds per sqare inch pressure change (Will Tekkie, since you're in Europe, I'll leave the conversion to SI units as an exercise for the student . . . )

dear friend..

your explanation was good...i understood your point of view...just i can not see if the following 100% true and related with the discussion: the fact about regulator´s size does not matter for non-scuba regulators ( not always true..i my own non-scuba experience ) ... i know you said it for show the advantage to use a less charged diafragm (low difference of pressure between faces )

In europe we also work with english units knowing them very well. but last point (delta P on the diafragm) can be explained even without a specific unit system (force= delta pressure/diafragm area)..so we dont need a exercise for student for understand it..

you have to be agree that not being the reg engineering a easy thing ( in fact sometimes could be a very hard area) is not so advanced as a aircraft fuselage design is or rocket engine turbo pump.....this is the thing i talked about...we have enough engineering tools (for example CFD as you said) in order to improve the current diving gear far away to a cosmetic or material (the real improvement in the time in my small opinion) design change ..conceptual changes ..maybe low technology will be needed..as was the forward step showed for the scuba gear in a time where the classical siebe diving suit like designs were the norm...

 

[WarmWaterDiver]

I haven't worked in SI units in close to 20 years now, so I knew if I tried to put that into words, I probably wouldn't get it right.

The problem of regulator freeze-up in the first stage is one that I think could be better addressed using some of the engineering tools available in other fields today - if an absolutely freeze-proof design was easy, it would already be on the market. So, this is where I choose to disagree, respectfully. When you see the technologies being used to explore fin designs these days (like the robot "kicker" Mares has shown photos of for example, and the "Nature's Wing" concept that until a few years ago no one had marketed in fins), it would be surprising if some things are available in other industries and branches of science that others haven't thought of using for scuba design and research previously.

Sorry if I came across the wrong way earlier - I was wanting to understand your perspective & experience. Honestly, I didn't expect someone who started this thread with the statement you did to be quite so sensitive . . .

Mi Espanol is muy malo tambien; su Ingles is no problema. Adios y buenos noches!