Why don't we emphasize cesa more??

[PerroneFord]

...when you do the cave training one of the first things you are cautioned about is your lack of access to the surface. ie you can't do a CESA.

Similarly, when one takes open water, they are cautioned that they should not run out of air. Yet, it happens, and here we are. It's AMAZING how hard it can be to re-train the mind for overhead thinking when someone has viewed CESA as a viable option.

I'm sure we must have done one in my OW class all those years ago, but I don't remember how to do one. And since I don't regard CESA as a viable option, due to personal choice as well as ignorance, I am vigilant about not getting into a scenario where one was necessary.

I wonder if people in OW class would be more vigilent about checking their gas supply if they offered phrases like we get in cave training:

***

"When you enter the water, the surface does not exist until you've done your stops. You MUST solve your problems underwater, or you will die". Mmmmkay?

GREAT, everyone suit up!

***

I'd love to see an OW instructor say that to a class. I bet the pre-dive briefing would be WELL commited to memory.

 

[Adobo]

***

"When you enter the water, the surface does not exist until you've done your stops. You MUST solve your problems underwater, or you will die". Mmmmkay?

GREAT, everyone suit up!

***

I'd love to see an OW instructor say that to a class. I bet the pre-dive briefing would be WELL commited to memory.

An instructor uttering those words would scare a good portion of the people who got sucked into Open Water class by all that "anyone can dive" marketing that's going on right out the door. That's $250/head on high margin gear like masks, snorkels, booties and split fins that walks out with that person. (If I was a gambling man, I would bet that jetfins are low margin which causes most dive shops to push something else. But I digress.) And let's not forget the $500-$1000 for a dive computer. Or the $900 for the titanium regulator.

It would never happen.

 

[lamont]

When was the last time you were in a cave or wreck? Maybe never?

cavern - dec, wreck - jan

 

[The_DivePirate]

If you've gotten to the point you are diving over head enviorments, you better have your gas consumption figured out! Even when I'm diving with my partner/buddy,(recreationally) we both dive with 19cf ponies, side mounted to our back gas.(4 totally redundant air sources) Don't really want too take that ride!!! HOHOHOHOHO, NO THANKS\

Dive SAFE/Train hard,
Joe

 

[Kevrumbo]

<snip>Enter reality ... you won't know it's coming. Chances are better than even that when you go to take that next breath you won't get any. Now you've got only a little bit of air in your lungs to "aaaahhhhh" with, and you're stressing. Even if you've practiced the drill, it ain't gonna happen the way you practiced it. Stress will not be your friend, and panic is the real danger. No matter how practiced you might be, once you start kicking toward the surface, you're gonna have to REMEMBER not to let instinct control you ... because if it does, you WILL hold your breath.

Now let's look at the other side of the coin ... most agencies don't teach any kind of gas management skills. They claim it's not necessary. But those are the very skills that would've ... in most cases ... prevented this situation from happening in the first place. Yeah, I know .. o-rings can blow, first stages can fail, etc. etc. ... but look at reality. <snip>

Yes, A-clamp/Yoke Valve o-rings do fail, and 2nd stage adjustment knobs do blow-off resulting in catastrophic free-flow. The latter happened to me (with my buddy nowhere to be found), during a shallow weight check dive in Cozumel at about 6meters deep on Single Tank. Switched to my necklaced back-up and feathered/modulated the Tank Valve on my CESA to the surface --piece of cake.

But true OOG CESA's --I shudder at the thought

 

[MauiScubaSteve]

Actually, according to PADI, buddy breathing is the last ditch resort. CESA is preferrable to that.

Not that it matters but the last resort in PADI OW training is Buoyant Ascent; drop weights, don't deflate BCD, no need to blow bubbles 'cause you have none, breaches up to 6ft out have been witnessed. Some victims have even survived.

 

[String]

IMO, you are making too many assumptions....There is NO WAY you can 100%, absolutely rely on a buddy system & proper air management to get you to the surface in good health

Thats why i firmly believe in carrying your own redundant air source.

 

[String]

One of my DM's was diving with him,but the diver didn't want either to buddy breath or take the alt air from the DM.Don't ask me wy he just didn't.Instead he made a perfect CESA

Thats one reason why i think teaching and emphasising CESA is dangerous, people are opting for it as a method to get to the surface ignoring far more practical and safer methods like octopus, redundancy etc.

 

[SparticleBrane]

When was the last time you were in a cave or wreck? Maybe never? In any case, most divers would benefit IMHO with having one more self rescue skill.

Who cares if he has or hasn't ever been in either? If he has that's good, if not, it's great that he recognizes the dangers...you don't need to be a cave diver to realize that if you're 1,000ft back and run out of air with no one to help you, you're done for.

 

[diver 85]

Thats why i firmly believe in carrying your own redundant air source.

In my book, a redundant air source is part of proper air management ie diver #1 assumes he/she has air in a heartbeat available whenever he/she needs it...What if it(the redundant air soure) blows the moment you put your sweet lips around its 2nd stage.....hmmmm....Again, there is NO 100% fullproof method of assuring you will get air from another source on the way up, either from a buddy or a backup system you have attached to you....All this falls under long shots, but don't ever rule long shots out....