but you are going to have to give your keyboard some imodium...
give me a chance to repsond here Doug while I still have some time left.
give me a chance to repsond here Doug while I still have some time left.
Why do computers rot the brain?
- Thread starter mth71
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SCUBAMedic
Guest
Uncle Pug you make huge assumptions about divers. Where do you get your stats from? or do they come from your own experience? From either using a computer yourself and finding that it just didn't work for you. Or from watching other divers you dived with - in which case try diving with computer divers who know how to use modern technology to benefit their diving - there are a lot of us out there.
Parameters are a recreational dive that never at any point exceeds the NDLs.
1. The phrase *Rot your brain* is a figure of speech that means has a deleterous effect upon your thinking process. Computers allow a diver to do the dive without paying attention to the details of time and depth and how the dive is progressing in terms of a profile. Picture if you will a dive computer download of a dive. The profile of the dive is there for you to see... after the fact. Wouldn't it be nice to have that picture unfolding in your brain as the dive progressed?
2. I don't know that tables are better than a computer.
3. My bottom time would not be accidently doubled because I am paying attention to my unfolding dive... though my planned time could be exceeded intentionally... and even in the case of an NDL dive this excess time would be offset by extra time at a shallower depth... but I would not allow my profile to go beyond the NDL.
4. My depth could be exceeded... probably not by 50'... but if it were then I would make adjustments to the profile of the dive to make up for it.
5. My assumption and evidently mistake.
Perhaps it is just my limited experience
Bob3
Contributor
OK, going to jump in now.
I've been grumbeling for a long time now that dive computers can become a potential safety hazard when used as intended.
The following sorta covers the Pugster's comment of:
A person using tables tends to "round off" towards the conservative side.
The most common statement heard by the DMTs as they're dogging the chamber hatch is: "I don't understand it, my computer was still in the green!".
It's nice to get a lot of bottom time in, but a measure of conservatisim may keep you from needing to use a cane sometime in the future.
I've been grumbeling for a long time now that dive computers can become a potential safety hazard when used as intended.
The following sorta covers the Pugster's comment of:
The most common time dive computers are at risk of making mischief are when a person goes on vacation and packs multiple dives in a series of consecutive days, pushing the crap out of the NDL's. They're setting themselves up as prime candidates for those so-called "undeserved hits" that happen all too often.
A person using tables tends to "round off" towards the conservative side.
The most common statement heard by the DMTs as they're dogging the chamber hatch is: "I don't understand it, my computer was still in the green!".
It's nice to get a lot of bottom time in, but a measure of conservatisim may keep you from needing to use a cane sometime in the future.
Could this not be interpreted as an "extravagant exaggeration," asked the kettle of the pot.
Scuba
Contributor
Uncle Pug wrote:
So is my computer.
It measures: How fast I ascend. How much nitrogen I have absorbed. How much longer I can remain at current depth within the specified perimeters, etc.
A clock computes what time it is based how its programmed. A depth guage computes depth based how its programmed.
Semantics, is it not?
I agree that when it comes to situational awareness a computer is not as good as a human - yet. But when it comes to calculating your nitrogen absorption based on your current, real, dive profile, it far surpasses the speed in which a human can do this.
The old cliches about using a computer so you don't have to think are just that. Anyone who truly believes this probably needs to work on their thinking process. Its not about thinking, theres plenty of people who shouldn't be allowed to think, its about rational thinking. Of course Uncle Pug, this is not meant toward you, as you have definitely demonstrated your ability to use a sound, rational thinking process - most of the time. Hey, I just got to pick on someone today, might as well be my good Uncle Pug.
So is my computer.
It measures: How fast I ascend. How much nitrogen I have absorbed. How much longer I can remain at current depth within the specified perimeters, etc.
A clock computes what time it is based how its programmed. A depth guage computes depth based how its programmed.
Semantics, is it not?
I agree that when it comes to situational awareness a computer is not as good as a human - yet. But when it comes to calculating your nitrogen absorption based on your current, real, dive profile, it far surpasses the speed in which a human can do this.
The old cliches about using a computer so you don't have to think are just that. Anyone who truly believes this probably needs to work on their thinking process. Its not about thinking, theres plenty of people who shouldn't be allowed to think, its about rational thinking. Of course Uncle Pug, this is not meant toward you, as you have definitely demonstrated your ability to use a sound, rational thinking process - most of the time.
Hey, I just got to pick on someone today, might as well be my good Uncle Pug.
Thanks PUG now we are getting somewhere usefull. lets see what we get out of it that we can use on our next dive. recreational dive that is.
this is true of any diver using any profile, at least with a computer the unaware diver will have a computer tracking his bottom time and depth, and therefore calculate your true NDL. not that any of this is good, because it is still making adjustmnents for the unaware diver. I let Darwin sort out these divers.
the great part about actualy monitoring your computer is that the dive does unfold while you dive. your no decompression limits is adjusted every several seconds and accounts for your actual depth as your profile varies.
We agree here no matter what type of diving we are doing, they are all generated using the same principles of math. the one advantage i see that computers have over tables is the difference between square profiles and multi level dives
I should have been more specific here as this is the meat of my question. what if your dive time is extended say due to entanglement, siltout, loss, or what ever of you or your budy [keeping it within recreational] keep in mind your planned NDL dive could result in a deco dive if this where to happen so i think it is appropriat for this recreational limited discution.
tables allow for a limited emergency deco procedure, tell me about your methods, and what if it is outside the imformation provided on the tables....it seems to me that the computer offers a simple solution here
How would you do this, say on that 50 foot difference again as a result of say having to save another diver...probable not you budy.....just for a quick simple example. computers will allow you to safely complete this dive by providing you with new NDL or deco if so required.
no problem, i am truely curiouse and obviously and advocate of the use of a computer for diving, and yes i do enjoy a lively debate, yet hate an arguement. I am not looking for a winner of any debate, just want to pass information back and forth. i have learned stuff right here on this board by doing this, but sometimes i need to press for an answer. I appreciate you entering into the debate. remember i did address the question to you and anybody using tables, [i will add other methods as well] thanks again for jumping in with both feet.....it is your phrase that sparked the debate isn't it.
this is true of any diver using any profile, at least with a computer the unaware diver will have a computer tracking his bottom time and depth, and therefore calculate your true NDL. not that any of this is good, because it is still making adjustmnents for the unaware diver. I let Darwin sort out these divers.
the great part about actualy monitoring your computer is that the dive does unfold while you dive. your no decompression limits is adjusted every several seconds and accounts for your actual depth as your profile varies.
We agree here no matter what type of diving we are doing, they are all generated using the same principles of math. the one advantage i see that computers have over tables is the difference between square profiles and multi level dives
I should have been more specific here as this is the meat of my question. what if your dive time is extended say due to entanglement, siltout, loss, or what ever of you or your budy [keeping it within recreational] keep in mind your planned NDL dive could result in a deco dive if this where to happen so i think it is appropriat for this recreational limited discution.
tables allow for a limited emergency deco procedure, tell me about your methods, and what if it is outside the imformation provided on the tables....it seems to me that the computer offers a simple solution here
How would you do this, say on that 50 foot difference again as a result of say having to save another diver...probable not you budy.....just for a quick simple example. computers will allow you to safely complete this dive by providing you with new NDL or deco if so required.
[/QUOTE]
no problem, i am truely curiouse and obviously and advocate of the use of a computer for diving, and yes i do enjoy a lively debate, yet hate an arguement. I am not looking for a winner of any debate, just want to pass information back and forth. i have learned stuff right here on this board by doing this, but sometimes i need to press for an answer. I appreciate you entering into the debate. remember i did address the question to you and anybody using tables, [i will add other methods as well] thanks again for jumping in with both feet.....it is your phrase that sparked the debate isn't it.
I was thinking strickly in terms of the brain rotting effect... (though I would actually give tables a nod in this regard I just didn't want to run down that rabbit trail.)
But as for safely staying well within the NDLs... you are absolutely right Bob.... tables win hands down.
That would be hyperbole.... this is a metaphor
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