Why dive in a quarry? Should you log them

[FinnMom]

This generated a lot of posts because the "those aren't actual dives" poo-pooing spikes an immediate desire for people defend themselves, and also invites those looking down their noses to tell how much better their standards for "a dive" are.

If you want a long conversation, invite someone to talk about themself :-D

Many writers had no intention whatsoever of having a condesending or superior tone, but I think that was exactly how it was perceived by many who jumped up and wrote back so enthusiastically.

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Regarding:

A new one on here is about training dives--- two of my examples:
--Deep Course diving wet to 130', and then 120' inflating my sausage on the bottom in 33F (late May) ocean water and following it up and safety stop. 15 minutes of the coldest I've been since leaving the Sub-Arctic. THAT gets logged.
--the OW courses I assisted as a DM. Lots of work, responsibilities. Those get logged.

The idea of "this dive taught me a thing or two" is a very interesting thread. I think there are already one or two older ones around with titles like that.

 

[Clark Fletcher]

Some additional thoughts:

1) If quarries should not count as dives, should dives in lakes not count as well? (as a quarry meets the definition of a lake)
2) Should a dive in Lake Phoenix in Virginia count? (as it was a quarry that was renamed).
3) Should a dive in the aquarium at Disney World or the National Aquarium in Baltimore count? (heck, there's lots of interesting stuff to see, so it should count, right?)
4) Oh almost forgot, if you certified in a quarry and should get additional training before you dive in the ocean, should you likewise receive quarry training if you certified in the ocean? (I ask because my quarry dive was much more challenging than my first few dives in the ocean)

 

[HantsDiver]

Some additional thoughts:

1) If quarries should not count as dives, should dives in lakes not count as well? (as a quarry meets the definition of a lake)
2) Should a dive in Lake Phoenix in Virginia count? (as it was a quarry that was renamed).
3) Should a dive in the aquarium at Disney World or the National Aquarium in Baltimore count? (heck, there's lots of interesting stuff to see, so it should count, right?)
4) Oh almost forgot, if you certified in a quarry and should get additional training before you dive in the ocean, should you likewise receive quarry training if you certified in the ocean? (I ask because my quarry dive was much more challenging than my first few dives in the ocean)

You should count or log anything you want. Log pool dives if you want. What counts as an open water dive is only valid during training. After that do whatever you want. My friend brought a new rebreather and got it set up and was adjusting trim weights in the pool - so he wrote this down. There are no rules on what you can write down.

The bit in bold. If you are trained in warm waters in the sea it would be an idea to get some training before jumping into a cold quarry. You'd want to know about thermal protection, alternative air sources and how to minimize the risk of freeflows. Which is what I did for my fiance who had done all her diving in tropical waters. I helped her pick a drysuit and then went diving with her and even taught her a couple of courses to feel comfortable in the conditions.

However, if you have dived in the sea in similar conditions to the quarry there is no need to take further training as quarries are simpler and less challenging dives than the sea*. Which is why I got my fiance to get comfortable with the equipment in a quarry before going off a boat and down onto a wreck, which she will be doing this weekend.

*That's going to upset some people but it's true. There is a reason that training is done in quarries - it's because you know what you will be getting and it's not as challenging. That does not diminish from quarry diving, and if you enjoy doing it then continue happily. Diving does not have to be challenging to be fun (my favorite dives are the chilled out ones in lovely clear warm water).

 

[packrat12]

What difference does it make with regards to logging a dive?

I log all of my dives except for pool dives, and even some pool dives get logged if warranted. I am not going pro so they are a personal record only. I do not care if they are shorter, shallower or easier than some perceived minimum. In the end, they contain data I want including the environment, the location, weighting, conditions, statistics etc. In the rare occasion that my logs are required by an operator, they will have or not have what they are looking for, e.g. depth, condition etc. If I have mot met their requirements, it does not matter what was logged especially if over-logged. For my first 20+ years of diving, I did not even bother logging any dives so I have an unknown quantity anyway.

If I do end up going pro (Highly, highly unlikely - Never), we will just ignore those that do not count. I have told my wife, who is working towards being a pro, to log all dives especially pool sessions for liability reasons. This will give better legal protection for her.

And as for the type of dive, a mud puddle still requires preparation, execution and completion of a dive skill set. There may be specific skills required for certain dives but most of the skill set is still the same. I would rather ocean dive with someone with 50 dives only in a quarry than 10 dives only in the ocean - they have less basics to learn and should be quicker to adapt to the differences. I had 1000+ dives when I went into Hudson Grotto for the first time. It pushed my skill set through the roof! I would have sworn I was a beginner again. Yet there are people in their OW course there. By the second dive, I just hated it... By the third dive I still hated it but thought it was a great training site!

 

[stuartv]

However, if you have dived in the sea in similar conditions to the quarry there is no need to take further training as quarries are simpler and less challenging dives than the sea*. Which is why I got my fiance to get comfortable with the equipment in a quarry before going off a boat and down onto a wreck, which she will be doing this weekend.

*That's going to upset some people but it's true. There is a reason that training is done in quarries - it's because you know what you will be getting and it's not as challenging. That does not diminish from quarry diving, and if you enjoy doing it then continue happily. Diving does not have to be challenging to be fun (my favorite dives are the chilled out ones in lovely clear warm water).

You're throwing a caveat in there that makes your statement nigh-on worthless. "... in the sea in similar conditions to the quarry..." No duh. The question was not about that very narrow and specific circumstance.

In general, the dives in "the sea" that are done by most of the scuba divers on the planet are much less challenging than most quarry dives. I have no scientific data to support this, so please take as just my opinion.

 

[Birddog1911]

In general, the dives in "the sea" that are done by most of the scuba divers on the planet are much less challenging than most quarry dives. I have no scientific data to support this, so please take as just my opinion.

I don't require a 8/7/6 semi-drysuit and 22 pounds of lead in the sea...

 

[Doby45]

In general, the dives in "the sea" that are done by most of the scuba divers on the planet are much less challenging than most quarry dives.

As I posted earlier about the guy in St. Martin bragging about his "thousands" of dives in the "sea". 25', crystal clear, 86* water. I could take him to the bottom of my quarry and he would die. The "sea" does not automatically make a more challenging dive.

 

[HantsDiver]

You're throwing a caveat in there that makes your statement nigh-on worthless. "... in the sea in similar conditions to the quarry..." No duh. The question was not about that very narrow and specific circumstance.

In general, the dives in "the sea" that are done by most of the scuba divers on the planet are much less challenging than most quarry dives. I have no scientific data to support this, so please take as just my opinion.

I agree that the dives done by quarry divers are more challenging than those done by clear water holiday divers. But I also feel that the dives done in the cold oceans with varying conditions and strong currents are more challenging than those done by the quarry diving fraternity. Ice diving is again more difficult than all of the above.

Does it really matter though? It's just diving and breathing compresses gas. It's not a competition and people should just do what they enjoy.

 

[Hoag]

In reading this, I am getting the feeling that a quarry has several things which may characterize it particularly from a diver's perspective. It has defined dimensions. It typically has little or no current. Its sides are typically shear walls, often on all sides. It appears, that it is these defining qualities that make different people believe that it may or may not be worth logging as a dive.

The discussion seems centered on whether diving in an environment such as this constitutes a dive that is worth logging. I have never dove in a quarry, but I have dove in a location that can be characterized by the same descriptions as a quarry would be, and I think that it definitely gets logged by everyone who dives there. In fact, it is considered to be the destination's "signature dive". The Great Blue Hole in Belize shares many of its attributes with those found in quarries. It has defined dimensions. It typically has little or no current. Its sides are shear walls, on all sides.

If you believe that diving in a location that has defined dimensions, with little or no current and shear walls on all sides means that that location is not worth logging, then those criteria must also be applied if/when you ever dive the Great Blue Hole. I tend to go to the other end of the spectrum. I log every dive. Even pool dives, particularly if it has been a while since I have dove and I want to knock some rust off before a trip or if I just bought and need to check out some new equipment. If I am under pressure, and breathing a compressed gas, then IMHO it is something that I can log.

 

[FinnMom]

Ice diving is more difficult than all of the above?! Do you realize that we can cut holes so you can stand up in the hole (about chest height) and even take off your tanks while standing in the water and easily push them onto the ice, then climb out relatively easily? Even if the hole is over many meters of water, I can make handholds and cutouts (in advance) that make it only a reasonable challenge to get up and out. No seasickness, no hours riding the waves to get somewhere, no gearing up on a wildly pitching deck, no trying to climb a ladder that plays keepaway and occasionally tries to kill you. I like ice diving. I also like diving in both Finnish and tropical seas, but the diving I read about from less nice days in northern seas and the great lakes sounds quite intimidating.