The same question could be asked of any of us. Breathing underwater is risky, so why learn to SCUBA dive? Cave diving is risky, so why learn to cave dive? CCR is a tool, just like stage bottles, DPV's or any other number of ways to dive. Any of them contain risks, and complacency increases those risks.In the wake of three deaths in one week I have a question for you guys who pilot them and those interested in them.
1 Why assume this risk when you are not a pro?
There wasn't just one reason why my buddy and I decided to go CCR, but a mainly for a variety of reasons. It should be a personal choice. For us, it was a decision that was weighed for almost two years.
Extended dive time, accelerated deco, additional comfort through breathing warm, moist air and more resources to work through problems are just a few advantages. Lack of bubbles allows you to get closer to aquatic life and no perculation in OE's are a couple more.2. What advantages do they have?
Your thinking is flawed because it's one dimensional. I'm not meaning that to be derogatory, but you're trying to apply OC gas management to a scenario you don't understand.I know several excellent CCR divers, and the ones I have asked all say the same thing. If you get complacent on CCR like you can on OC you will probably die. I know a lot of people think so much more bottom time with less gear. This is false, you better have the OC gear and gas to get you back to the surface if something goes wrong. I dont see that as an advantage nor do you save money on expensive tri-mix cause you still need enough to save yourself.
I'll give an example. Doing a non-overhead dive to 100' for 45 minutes on OC using 32%. V-planner shows this dive for me on OC to require 120+ cft of gas and 15 minutes of deco. How much bailout do you think I'd need to carry to do this dive on CCR?
If I had a total loop failure at max depth/time, I'd need 24 cft of gas to get me back to the surface from depth and complete the necessary deco. So a 40cft bottle would be plenty of gas for this scenario because I don't need the gas to do the dive, I just need an adequate amount to get me back to the surface, and cover my deco + any emergency. The same concept applies in an OE.
That's a simple example and when it gets into OE scenarios it gets a bit more complicated, but hopefully it illustrated the point. Furthermore, the O2 and diluent tanks on my CCR are good for about 5+ hours of diving and cost me $5 to fill. If I don't use bailout, I never have to fill it. My average OC gas bill for a long weekend cave diving on OC nitrox was ~$100-120. Cost of consumables (dil, O2 and 'sorb) for my last CCR trip was about $35 and I logged about 1.5 times more bottom time. Diving trimix, the OC gas cost would run us ~$120-150 per dive.
I know there are several places to dive where if your not sidemount then you are not going, this I see as a disadvantage. The only true advantage I see is taking pics or video where your exhaust could scare away your subject. Is that really worth the risk if you are not making money as a pro? I would love to see some good answers here and look forward to them.
I can't answer this as I don't push sidemount passages on OC either. Although I do know that there are people that have ways of sidemounting a CCR setup. The advantage in CCR's come from doing deeper dives. The deeper you go, the more efficient they become. Yes, deeper dives require more bailout, but it's not as great as people often make it out to be. As I mentioned earlier, another big plus to CCR is that you wont have perculation disturbing silt on the ceilings in wrecks or low flow caves.
Well actually you do have the cost if you dive it correct. You have to have enough OC gear and gas to get you from depth to surface in the event of a failure.. In some caves that could be a lot of gas.. Thats why I am asking this,
It doesnt require carrying as much bailout as you probably think it does and unless you actually have to bailout, that gas is not being used, so it's not a recurring cost.
Sure does!
A RB is a tool, and depending on your needs which unit you require will change. I personally would never touch a electronic unit, diving a Manual unit requires you to watch everything.. regularly!
Not that i dive any unit, it also requires a crap load of maturity... lol
Just because a unit has electronics doesnt mean you can't still monitor it or fly it manually. I do this with my Meg. The electronics are a backup in case my attention lapses.
MIke and Howard. I know you can hook your bail out gas to the CCR.. That would limit the amount you need to take. I dont understand why you would do that tho.. If there was a reason to go the the BO gas, seems to me that there is a problem with the unit or existing gas pressures ( too high PP02's, ect ) are bad. Looks safer to go to OC at that point or are you remixing if the gas supply is bad?
I'm not really following what you're asking here, but I'll attempt to answer what I think you're saying.
There are different reasons for bailing out and the reason can dictate your actions. Your bailout should be like OC rock bottom calculations. You carry sufficient bailout to get you to the surface under less than ideal conditions while completing all necessary deco etc from your max depth/time of the dive.
Bailout typically means the dive is over. There may be exceptions that allow you to go back on the loop though. Example, PO2 reading is way off. You notice it and immediately bail out. You KNOW it shouldnt be, and you suspect the O2 sensors may have moisture on them. So you flush the loop with dil, which puts a known gas into the loop and dries the sensors. After re-evaluating you decide to go back on the loop and monitor the situation for further problems.
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