Why aren't more people taking up scuba diving?

[cerich]

You guys are funny...skiing is not booming in the face of dive tanking...

Alpine Skiing Participation Drops 19% in 2012/13 | Is the Ski Industry in Trouble? | SnowBrains.com

call the head guy at HEAD, they own Mares and HEAD

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

You guys also need to take into consideration that the slopes attract a lot more people than mostly white over 40 fairly well to do males.
Since the past days of "purist" skiing when suddenly snow boarding showed up and now thrash skateboarding styles such as sliding off railings or getting air, initially off the edge of an empty pool, and now off the edge of a pipeline is cool. Those styles could now be applied to the slopes and it brought the whole crowd that's into that stuff with it.
We're seeing all sorts of people going up to the snow including young and old, blacks, hispanics, asians, an almost complete cross section of the population. Not so in diving.
This is California too, where people come from all over, Oakland, LA, SF, Sacramento, you name it.
On Socal charter boats I never see that type of diversity. Come to think of it, any place I've been diving in the world I've never seen much diversity.

 

[RJP]

You guys are funny...skiing is not booming in the face of dive tanking...

Alpine Skiing Participation Drops 19% in 2012/13 | Is the Ski Industry in Trouble? | SnowBrains.com

call the head guy at HEAD, they own Mares and HEAD

No. You're funny Chris. Read the article you quoted again. This time try to make it as far as the SECOND sentence: "Freeskiing went up however, along with telemarking."

That 19%/2MM participant "drop" in "alpine" skiing - traditional downhill skiing - was more than offset by a dramatic JUMP of 1.7MM freestyle skiing participants and 700k telemark skiing participants.

You - and the guy who wrote the headline - also managed to miss this great big chart with bright colors and big numbers which is located DIRECTLY ABOVE the sentence quoted in the headline and your post. It would appear to show 400,000 MORE total downhill skiers (Alpine + Freeskiing + Telemark) than the previous year.

The first sentence was specific to the individual, discipline of "alpine" skiing. Saying that "skiing was down 19%" based on that would be like reporting that everyone who went sidemount or rebreather last year "left scuba diving."

And you know what many of those 2,700,000 people who took up freestyle and telemarking did last year? Whether they were new skiers or came from Alpine... they bought new skis, boots, bindings, poles, and probably a stylish new parka and gloves. And then they took all that stuff... and went skiing.

Another one of those pesky "disruptive innovations" again.

If Head missed the boat on freeskiing and telemark skis... that's THEIR problem.

According to the NSAA report I was using as a source for popularity of skiiing: "The National Ski Areas Association (NSAA) has announced that U.S. ski areas tallied 56.5 million skier and snowboarder visits during the 2013‐14 season—a figure just shy of the 10‐year industry average of 57.3 million, and down only 0.7 percent from last season’s 56.9 million skier visits. In longer perspective, visits nationally were up 10.8 percent in 2013‐14 from a recent low of 51 million visits in 2011‐12, and down 6.7 percent from the record high of 60.5 million in 2010‐11." (my emphasis)

http://www.nsaa.org/media/214568/PressReleaseKottkeFinal.pdf

Anyone think 2010/2011 were record years for scuba diving?

Either way, the rallying cry of the DEMA folks was "If skiing can do it... so can we!"

Guess it depends on what the definition of "it" is.

:d





---------- Post added December 11th, 2014 at 10:28 PM ----------

You guys also need to take into consideration that the slopes attract a lot more people than mostly white over 40 fairly well to do males.

So you're suggesting that diving is - and should remain - limited to mostly fairly well-to-do over 40 white males?

 

[drrich2]

On Socal charter boats I never see that type of diversity. Come to think of it, any place I've been diving in the world I've never seen much diversity.

Eric:

You bring up a very relevant topic, but one that's hard to discuss on the forum, because it entails acknowledging that while different ethnic groups are not considered to have innate biological distinctions beyond the superficial cosmetics (e.g.: eye shape, hair texture, skin color), there are some sociologically induced differences in trends across groups. Like the disproportionate % of blacks in prison or from single parent homes, based on statistics I've seen over the years & don't recall the specifics of.

Some years back someone in a company sent an e-mail to a colleague with some tips on selling to different ethnic groups, and this e-mail got out & 'went viral.'

The moment you start talking about how you think blacks or Asians differ from whites in attitude & real world practices, and what you think would differentially appeal to them, a number of people will feel compelled to cite people they know who are exceptions to the stereotype (as if that disproves it).

Look at RJP's thread with a survey in which one of the questions simply asks your race, without making any claims about its significance. Some quotes from that thread:

You're asking about 'race', but not about nationality/world region. This seems kind of weird unless the poll is very much intended - either deliberately or accidentally - towards a North American/US audience.

A valid, thoughtful criticism.

I didn't complete the survey, there was something that left me with an 'odd' feeling. That's it. Nicely done.

Geographic 'dive locales' most definitely have their own culture that is quite independent of race. Kudos.

Myself, I'm a bit wary about 'racial' distinctions. IMO, differences between groups of people are not caused by 'race', but rather by cultural, subcultural or social ('class') differences. From a sociological POV, it's interesting: I have the distinct impression that the USA may be the developed country where you find the strongest correlation between 'racial' and social/subcultural differences. So with that correlation, 'race' may be a simple and convenient indicator, but in other cultures? Not so much.

You're kind of dodging the issue here, I didn't react to the question about gender. I see the point in investigating gender bias, but I fail to see the relevance of 'race' bias, at least outside USA.

I too was taken aback by the race question but wonder is it neither here nor there.

Whether it's ethnicity or gender, if you see a differential in use, and wish to exploit an untapped market or pursue 'social equity,' and you wish to use marketing to get a persuasive message to that demographic, you're going to have to admit & discuss the fact there's something different about that demographic. And people are so defensive about even acknowledging such differences that even on Scuba Board, which is normally pretty good for frank discussions, I suspect this one may be too hot to handle.

If I'm wrong, it may be a very interesting thread.

Richard.

 

[Bob DBF]

This chart is one of the problems with getting a handle on good information. It gives total certs rather than new divers.

Considering most divers that don't quit get OW, AOW, and Nitrox, so divide the 900000 certs by three giving something like 300000 divers a year which is closer to say the early '80's before a majority of divers were getting multiple certs. This is probably still high for new divers, a problem that could be solved by giving good data to begin with.



Bob

 

[RJP]

This chart is one of the problems with getting a handle on good information. It gives total certs rather than new divers.

Considering most divers that don't quit get OW, AOW, and Nitrox, so divide the 900000 certs by three giving something like 300000 divers a year which is closer to say the early '80's before a majority of divers were getting multiple certs. This is probably still high for new divers, a problem that could be solved by giving good data to begin with.



Bob

The DEMA chart I shared was OW certs, by year for PADI, SSI, and SDI. NAUI doesn't like to play nice in the sandbox.

 

[Bob DBF]

Worse than I imagined, at that rate it's amazing there as many gear vendors as there are.


Bob

 

[RJP]

Worse than I imagined, at that rate it's amazing there as many gear vendors as there are.


Bob

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

So you're suggesting that diving is - and should remain - limited to mostly fairly well-to-do over 40 white males?

I'm not saying that at all, that was simply an observation. I absolutely did not say that that's how it should be or remain, you said that.
My point was that for whatever reason groups of people besides caucasians are absent for the most part in diving, whereas in snow related sports there is a much more diverse population participating.
I don't know why this is, but skiing and related snow sports has a larger base to draw from because a more diverse population is involved in it.
And I think it's great.

 

[KevinNM]

My point was that for whatever reason groups of people besides caucasians are absent for the most part in diving, whereas in snow related sports there is a much more diverse population participating.
I don't know why this is, but skiing and related snow sports has a larger base to draw from because a more diverse population is involved in it.
And I think it's great.

My understanding from the people I know who taught military recruits, as well as other sources, is that there is much higher percentage of african-americans who don't know how to swim. Not being able to swim is kind of a big deal for scuba diving.

How many Americans can't swim?
"The Memphis study broke the data down demographically. White children were the most likely to self-report (or have their parents report) strong swimming skills, with 58 percent of those between the ages of 4 and 18 claiming the ability to traverse more than a pool length. Hawaiians and Pacific Islanders came in a close second at 55 percent. Forty-two percent of Hispanic and Latino children are strong swimmers. Asian-American and Native American children came in at 34 percent and 32 percent, respectively. African-Americans reported the fewest strong swimmers at 31 percent. Accident rates largely conform to these data. Black children between 5 and 14 years old are more than three times as likely to drown as their white peers. The six children who died in Louisiana were African-American."