Info Why are tables not taught in OW classes anymore?
- Thread starter tursiops
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(A little OT here)
Not just SB, but endemic within the creature.
Truk Lagoon, an incident I referenced earlier here. She dove down to that fabled holy-grail steamroller at 212fsw (?) and from far above, I watched her grind her wrist mount into the sand. Literally happened.
(Further OT? I dove the i169 sub in the 1970 on mixed gas and tables)
The standard “one of three questions” all non-divers ask…how deep do you go?
It’s a simple metric that is easily relatable. Brag? I suppose For many.
After a lifetime of diving and watching DCS, wondering if I have had it, my last 40 years have been very very shallow and ultra conservative. I look at my computer occasionally but mostly the thermometer function. My first real computer was the Sea&Sea Profile 1000 (after the Bend-o-Matic & the Brick) which was XY Graphic and had minimal predictive advice.
I do other arguably dumb stunts like surfacing at 100psi, but it’s usually in 2fsw at a shore exit.
To your @johndiver999 point though, maybe riding that computer is their only practicable skill set they have mastered? We created this monster in early PADI brainstorming- how to eliminate hand paddling? Put the SPG in their hand, thus creating the artificial ‘need’ to stare at it. That is how (I believe) that it happened.
NOOB divers can’t see much else, it gives them something to do. It took on a ‘fidget toy’ life of it’s own, due also to the need for an “underwater i-phone” nuck. Further elevated in “need” by the tech deco obligated diver creating u/w video games -hand helds to pass their boredom.
SCUBA consumers love bright shiny objects, better if they have serial numbers, better yet if they have o-rings and batteries allowing us to totally destroy these obviously defective designs. We like cool stuff.
The CDI factor (Chicks Dig It) is real.
Some augment this need for stimulation by the Quest to Eliminate All Lionfish.
Is the Wheel still being taught by PADI as well? Shame if it is NOT.
I still saw divers with no computer or timing device, just follow the DM.
I wonder if the course explains the various algorithms used in recreational diving? Probably NOT because it will take far too much time to compare and contrast.
I still saw divers with no computer or timing device, just follow the DM.
I wonder if the course explains the various algorithms used in recreational diving? Probably NOT because it will take far too much time to compare and contrast.
I learned on tables, and then the wheel for multilevel dives and then the eRDPml. As a DM I also had to help students understand and apply them once they were taught by the instructors I assisted. Also learned to use planning software (VPlanner, Baltic and MultiDeco) in my technical courses to plan dives. Had to plan everything out and then execute the plan with computer in bottom timer mode.
Outside of any class, I never used any of those apart from the planning software. I had a computer from dive #5 (first dive out of OW class). I don't even know where my tables, wheel and eRDPml are but I believe I still have them in a box somewhere. I do still have all 3 planning apps on my phone for dive planning. I do use those as needed for planning dives.
All that to say that I would tend to agree with you @tursiops, tables just don't align with how today's recreational divers dive. EVERYONE uses a computer. Many of us always carry two computers now. Plus computers are now extremely reliable if properly maintained.
The one practice that seems to be on the increase that troubles me has been mentioned on this thread. Computer sharing. That seems to be growing in prevalence and even practiced by some "professionals". That troubles me and I feel it is an incredibly bad idea. The reasons why it is a bad idea have already been articulated in the thread. IF you are going to be a computer diver, you need to ideally own your own computer. Learn it inside and out. Maintain it well. Then when you can, purchase a backup to carry with you on every dive.
Computer rental is obviously popular. One issue I regularly see with that is divers not knowing how their computers work. That sometimes happens with divers who own the computer, but typically it is rental computers. If you are going to rely on that computer, you need to know how it works, what the settings are (O2, PPO2, alarms, conservatism), how to change them, and how to interpret what it's telling you. Many divers who are diving rental computers barely have a clue how to interpret what the computer tells them let alone fully understand what the settings are they are diving. That is a concern with rentals. I don't really have a solution other than the dive shop/boat renting out the equipment taking 15 minutes to walk through a tutorial on how it works.
Outside of any class, I never used any of those apart from the planning software. I had a computer from dive #5 (first dive out of OW class). I don't even know where my tables, wheel and eRDPml are but I believe I still have them in a box somewhere. I do still have all 3 planning apps on my phone for dive planning. I do use those as needed for planning dives.
All that to say that I would tend to agree with you @tursiops, tables just don't align with how today's recreational divers dive. EVERYONE uses a computer. Many of us always carry two computers now. Plus computers are now extremely reliable if properly maintained.
The one practice that seems to be on the increase that troubles me has been mentioned on this thread. Computer sharing. That seems to be growing in prevalence and even practiced by some "professionals". That troubles me and I feel it is an incredibly bad idea. The reasons why it is a bad idea have already been articulated in the thread. IF you are going to be a computer diver, you need to ideally own your own computer. Learn it inside and out. Maintain it well. Then when you can, purchase a backup to carry with you on every dive.
Computer rental is obviously popular. One issue I regularly see with that is divers not knowing how their computers work. That sometimes happens with divers who own the computer, but typically it is rental computers. If you are going to rely on that computer, you need to know how it works, what the settings are (O2, PPO2, alarms, conservatism), how to change them, and how to interpret what it's telling you. Many divers who are diving rental computers barely have a clue how to interpret what the computer tells them let alone fully understand what the settings are they are diving. That is a concern with rentals. I don't really have a solution other than the dive shop/boat renting out the equipment taking 15 minutes to walk through a tutorial on how it works.
What agency do you use for the certs?
Why am I glad I learned to dive tables when I got my OW 17 months ago?
1. It takes some effort
Diving is potentially dangerous, and I don't think making it too easy is a good thing. Easy come, easy go. I think making the effort to understand how to dive tables gave me more respect for the potential risks and made more confident that I can make good decisions before, during and after a dive, whether I use a computer or not
2. Awareness
Diving tables I am forced to keep track of my exposure underwater. I must keep track of time and depth, rather than just waiting for the computer to beep. This awareness helps when diving with computers, because I know more or less how long I've been under and what depth I'm at before I look at the computer, just like I know how much gas I have before I look at the SPG.
3. Plan your dive, dive your plan
Knowing the tables and normal NDL times makes it easy to plan a dive ahead of time, or recognize an overly ambitious plan when I hear it. Of course you can/should also plan dives with a computer (and I do) and will probably get a sense of this anyways after a while as long as you are aware of your profile as you dive, but I think learning the tables made this process faster for me.
Bottom line:
I mostly just follow my computer these days, but I'm glad I can execute a dive safely with just a bottom timer. I think "trust me-dives" are dangerous and I think teaching tables is one way (but not the only) to make divers more aware and responsible, and I do worry that just teaching computers can make it easier for bad practices to occur like blindly following a DM/guide without even having a computer.
1. It takes some effort
Diving is potentially dangerous, and I don't think making it too easy is a good thing. Easy come, easy go. I think making the effort to understand how to dive tables gave me more respect for the potential risks and made more confident that I can make good decisions before, during and after a dive, whether I use a computer or not
2. Awareness
Diving tables I am forced to keep track of my exposure underwater. I must keep track of time and depth, rather than just waiting for the computer to beep. This awareness helps when diving with computers, because I know more or less how long I've been under and what depth I'm at before I look at the computer, just like I know how much gas I have before I look at the SPG.
3. Plan your dive, dive your plan
Knowing the tables and normal NDL times makes it easy to plan a dive ahead of time, or recognize an overly ambitious plan when I hear it. Of course you can/should also plan dives with a computer (and I do) and will probably get a sense of this anyways after a while as long as you are aware of your profile as you dive, but I think learning the tables made this process faster for me.
Bottom line:
I mostly just follow my computer these days, but I'm glad I can execute a dive safely with just a bottom timer. I think "trust me-dives" are dangerous and I think teaching tables is one way (but not the only) to make divers more aware and responsible, and I do worry that just teaching computers can make it easier for bad practices to occur like blindly following a DM/guide without even having a computer.
Correct me if I'm wrong but computers don't use pressure groups (PG). If you want you can reference tables for PG's when filling out your log book during OW dives. Then you will need to understand the use of tables.
Tables are obsolete. Would be much better to teach a little about Bühlmann ZHL-16C and some gradient factors and what does what and emphasize MUCH more about gas planning. Teaching dumbass OOA should also be a far far second to proper gas planning. Teaching "AHHHHHHHHHHHH" from depth because you ran OOA should also be obsolete. It just shouldn't happen... if it did you ****** up a LOT on the way to that point and your instructor failed you miserably or you're in the wrong hobby.
I have a multitude of apps on my phone for gas planning, so much more functional than just using tables. I plan with those and get the key points in my head or in notes and then use the 2 dc's to do the dive. Why they aren't taught in OW more is beyond me... wouldn't that prevent the need for OOA and the "AAHHHHHHHH" from depth? Why not rent everyone in class a dc with a transmitter and let them see what's REALLY going on behind the scenes post dive? I would "think" you'd wind up with much more competent divers then what they mill out now. Let them see what their RMV really is and plan the next dive with it in mind, let them see what their surfgf's were when they came up that way they know to go slower next time. At that point you sold them a new computer to go with the class.
What do I know though... I would probably drown people if I was an instructor. I dive to get away from people!!
I have a multitude of apps on my phone for gas planning, so much more functional than just using tables. I plan with those and get the key points in my head or in notes and then use the 2 dc's to do the dive. Why they aren't taught in OW more is beyond me... wouldn't that prevent the need for OOA and the "AAHHHHHHHH" from depth? Why not rent everyone in class a dc with a transmitter and let them see what's REALLY going on behind the scenes post dive? I would "think" you'd wind up with much more competent divers then what they mill out now. Let them see what their RMV really is and plan the next dive with it in mind, let them see what their surfgf's were when they came up that way they know to go slower next time. At that point you sold them a new computer to go with the class.
What do I know though... I would probably drown people if I was an instructor. I dive to get away from people!!
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