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Paul Evans
"Mr Mares"
yknot:
Hitting the nail squarely on the head
Why are steel tanks so expensive in the US
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Hitting the nail squarely on the head
ChrisA
Contributor
So the tanks cost $300 each because the price of steel is high. What's "high". Look it up. It is high, very high. It 2002 Carbon steel is going for about $350 per ton and now its almost $600. It's almost doubled!
So per pound that is $600/2000 = $0.30 per pound. The steel in your typical 40 pound tank cost a whopping $12.00.
Aluminum costs more than twice as much as steel. It's roughly $0.75 per pound. so the material cost of an AL80 is about $20
Even if they make the tank out of stainless steel the cost of the metal would be maybe $50.00.
But the metal price is NOT the major part of the cost. Heck at $600 per ton cars would cost about $1000. It takes some effort to transform a steel plate into a SCUBA tank. some effort and some very expensive machines and some energy to heat the steel and then you have to transport them and then no one wants to work for free so there is some profet tagged on. Basically they sell for $300 because people will pay $300.
So per pound that is $600/2000 = $0.30 per pound. The steel in your typical 40 pound tank cost a whopping $12.00.
Aluminum costs more than twice as much as steel. It's roughly $0.75 per pound. so the material cost of an AL80 is about $20
Even if they make the tank out of stainless steel the cost of the metal would be maybe $50.00.
But the metal price is NOT the major part of the cost. Heck at $600 per ton cars would cost about $1000. It takes some effort to transform a steel plate into a SCUBA tank. some effort and some very expensive machines and some energy to heat the steel and then you have to transport them and then no one wants to work for free so there is some profet tagged on. Basically they sell for $300 because people will pay $300.
cool_hardware52
Contributor
Regarding welding bottles. I'd guess and this only a guess, that commercial gas bottles (of which I own ~6) are built heavier for long term service in demanding applications. Welding shops are typically rough places, construction sites are worse. I know my 244 cuft argon bottles are plenty heavy ~ 160 lbs.
Is a "lighter" weight scuba bottle more costly to make? Not sure but it's possible if methods and tolerances are closer.
I can say that all metals and particularly Stainless and mild steel have shot up in cost. SS is 2x currently from the price last September.
What is driving this? The war, the demand in China and the weakness of the US dollar.
I did have occasion to tour the Norris Industry plant here in LA a couple years ago before they closed. They made two things..... high pressure gas bottles and artillery shells. Same basic processes involved, deep drawing with jumbo presses.
Here again I'm speculating, but it would not surprise me to learn that both press capacity and the steel required is flowing to the war effort and not scuba.
Regards,
Tobin George
Is a "lighter" weight scuba bottle more costly to make? Not sure but it's possible if methods and tolerances are closer.
I can say that all metals and particularly Stainless and mild steel have shot up in cost. SS is 2x currently from the price last September.
What is driving this? The war, the demand in China and the weakness of the US dollar.
I did have occasion to tour the Norris Industry plant here in LA a couple years ago before they closed. They made two things..... high pressure gas bottles and artillery shells. Same basic processes involved, deep drawing with jumbo presses.
Here again I'm speculating, but it would not surprise me to learn that both press capacity and the steel required is flowing to the war effort and not scuba.
Regards,
Tobin George
Far_X:
You can't get them filled or hydroed without DOT certification in USA. You can buy them, import them but you'll have to send them to England to fill. Might get a little pricey.
cool_hardware52
Contributor
wedivebc:You can't get them filled or hydroed without DOT certification in USA. You can buy them, import them but you'll have to send them to England to fill. Might get a little pricey.
Just buy your own compressor
Scubaroo
Contributor
Before anyone starts complaining about steel tank prices in the US - a 100cf tank in Australia will set you back about $600 retail, and dive shops demand YEARLY hydros.
Of course they're available cheaper if you know where to look.
Of course they're available cheaper if you know where to look.
Having worked in the injection molding and other metal working industries for nearly 20 years, I can answer a couple of questions regarding prices.
Steel per pound, is still cheaper than aluminum, at least in the US.
Machining/forming/pressing costs for steel are more expensive than aluminum, but not enough to justify triple the price.
Unions. Unions are a major problem. When a company is walking the thin edge of economic existence and the union heads come in and demand higher wages, more benefits at lower cost to the employees or else a strike will ensue, the unions are to blame for a major amount of the problem.
Having seen what has happened at GM, GD, Lockheed, Bell, etc., and the mentality of union machinists, I have no doubt.
Steel per pound, is still cheaper than aluminum, at least in the US.
Machining/forming/pressing costs for steel are more expensive than aluminum, but not enough to justify triple the price.
Unions. Unions are a major problem. When a company is walking the thin edge of economic existence and the union heads come in and demand higher wages, more benefits at lower cost to the employees or else a strike will ensue, the unions are to blame for a major amount of the problem.
Having seen what has happened at GM, GD, Lockheed, Bell, etc., and the mentality of union machinists, I have no doubt.
Uh.. why is it triple?
Isn't it more like twice?
At least that's what the stores around here charge. PST E7 100 : $270, AL80 : $150.
For dive staff, my LDS sells AL80's just a little over at-cost (~$100?) to encourage them to own their own tanks instead of using the store rentals.
I don't know why steel tanks cost a lot more, but isn't it the case that it's more the AL tanks being cheap than the steel tanks being expensive?
At many stores, I believe AL tanks are sold at a low margin, just to get people to come for air fills and buy other gear.
Isn't it more like twice?
At least that's what the stores around here charge. PST E7 100 : $270, AL80 : $150.
For dive staff, my LDS sells AL80's just a little over at-cost (~$100?) to encourage them to own their own tanks instead of using the store rentals.
I don't know why steel tanks cost a lot more, but isn't it the case that it's more the AL tanks being cheap than the steel tanks being expensive?
At many stores, I believe AL tanks are sold at a low margin, just to get people to come for air fills and buy other gear.
Mr Mares:
At that price, the steel tanks are I guess about 25% cheaper than in the US.
If AL tanks are more expensive than that, that's really expensive!! AL80's here cost $150, which comes to 80 pounds. By shopping around you can get it for less, maybe less than $120 (65 pounds)!
Which means that yes, the steel tanks are more expensive in the US than in the UK, but the AL tank prices are exorbitant in the UK whereas they are dirt cheap in the US.
paulwlee:
I'm paying $109 for AL80's, brand new, blast finish, and steel around here run $290 and up. Some LDS are charging $130 and up for AL's but I think that's nuts.
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