DIR- GUE Why are non-GUE divers so interested in what GUE does?

[flymolo]

When was the last time you checked your BOV was working while diving below 330 feet?

When was the last time you checked your BOV was working while diving below 330 feet?

 

[RTodd]

Tim O'Leary, who kind of ran NAUI Tech until a few years ago, was talking with George and members of the WKPP at least as far back as 1996 or 1997. Andrew didn't really get involved with anything involving the WKPP or GUE until around the time of the Britannic expedition in '99.

The phrase Doing It Right was originally coined by a reporter by the name of Sue Cocking, she ended an article on the WKPP with something like "the reason they are so successful is because they do it right". George took it and ran with it.

To further add to this. Prior to using DIR JJ used hogarthian in my original cave training manual. However that term became corrupted and was being used way more broadly than was intended by the founders of GUE. Not surprisingly the same thing happened to DIR and GUE basically dropped that as well.

The George hate is completely misguided these days. I liked him but recognize he could be abrasive. His random nicknames were often fitting but occasionally he did get it wrong and being the brunt of that could be brutal. However, the message was in the context of the time where people were routinely doing 300’ dives on air in wetsuits with heavy steel tanks. It needed calling out and the methods were fairly effective.

It appears GUE doesn’t follow that path of trying to directly change industry attitudes at all anymore. I suspect partly for the same reasons I pretty much never post on here anymore, it won’t change the behavior of the majority of divers and is mostly a waste of time.

Diving beyond traditional recreational and even initial technical diving limits properly is an expensive commitment of time and money. Some of the best advice I got was after doing a dive with Trout who only said, pull out the checkbook. Basically an approval of the skill level but a warning on what it takes to really pursue cave exploration, which I never really did at a significant level because I lacked the time. Many of the anti-GUE crowd don’t want to commit the time and funds and hide behind the there are more ways to dive. In the 90s this was the personal preference crowd. Recreational diving and less demanding technical diving can clearly be done safely with all manner of training and gear. But the reality is the path to maximizing safety and efficiency as the diving gets more complex is expensive and time consuming and frankly looks pretty similar to what GUE teaches no matter how you get there. Many aren’t willing to make the commitment.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

The George hate is completely misguided these days. I liked him but recognize he could be abrasive.

"Could"?!? I never met the guy but I've read transcripts and seen videos of him. Saying he could be abrasive is like saying cow manure could stink.

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

The term "Doing it Right" was created well before Jarrod wrote that book. George Irvine III used the phrase in an interview about WKPP diving practices. That was before GUE existed. The phrase stuck with WKPP, which included Jarrod. Jarrod used it later when he created GUE, and he used it when he created Halcyon.

A training director for both WKPP (I think) and GUE was Andrew Georgitsis. After GUE fired him, he worked for NAUI Tech for a while, bringing the ideas and term there, although NAUI did not formally adopt the term. Then he founded UTD, which still uses the term DIR. (GUE, BTW, does not.) Current UTD practices do not align with GUE's or with earlier version of DIR, but they still call it DIR. There are some significant differences.

Another agency, Innerspace Explorers (ISE) also uses the term DIR. I do not know how well their version of DIR matches GUE practices.

Actually, George didn’t come up with the term DIR, a reporter did.
During an interview George was asked about what they were doing, how they were doing it etc. He was explain it and the reporter said something to the effect of “So in other words you guys are doing it right?”, and George said “Yeah, I guess you could say that”. And the term stuck ever since.

 

[Lorenzoid]

Actually, George didn’t come up with the term DIR, a reporter did.
During an interview George was asked about what they were doing, how they were doing it etc. He was explain it and the reporter said something to the effect of “So in other words you guys are doing it right?”, and George said “Yeah, I guess you could say that”. And the term stuck ever since.

See Ken's post above.

 

[Blackcrusader]

Seems like a conflict of interest

Nope. Maybe he just knows what diving I am doing. I don't do cave or wreck penetration just some deco dives from time to time. Perhaps he better than others understands my diving capabilities and previous training. There is no conflict on not promoting a course that is not necessary for a diver.

 

[crofrog]

Nope. Maybe he just knows what diving I am doing. I don't do cave or wreck penetration just some deco dives from time to time. Perhaps he better than others understands my diving capabilities and previous training. There is no conflict on not promoting a course that is not necessary for a diver.

Did he stand to gain monetarily?

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

After some self-reflection, GUE fundies is not for everyone. You have to be somewhat coachable to get something out of it. I was a PITA a bit as I didn't understand the system fully. I have had conversations with my fundies instructors on how to address PITA students like myself. Even though I've gone the rebreather route, where I will seek out other P2 instructors for workshops/feedback/training, I would like to go back to OC, work on my fundies tech pass, maybe even take T1, and simultaneously work on my coachability, as that will make me a better diver and also a better instructor. People are coachable to varying degrees. Given that GUE has a regimented philosophy based on setting up processes that do not waiver as they progress through the system to more and more challenging diving, the people who get the most out of it are the ones who are most coachable. One of my former OW/AOW students earned a T1 pass after 230 dives, 2 years of diving. What is unique about him? He's very coachable.

I've had a student who was the polar opposite. I didn't certify him, but someone else did. I would not be surprised if I read about him on the A&I forum one day. Or his dive buddy.

 

[Blackcrusader]

Did he stand to gain monetarily?

For not promoting GUE? No. Even if he promoted GUE he would not be doing it for the money. He did the GUE fundies course so we discussed that and if I should do it? I dive with him and he also does not gain monetarily on those dives. Not everyone is in it only for the money. Will he get paid for teaching my TDI ANDP course, then yes that is for the money. Nowadays I like taking vacations where the primary purpose is doing 3 - 4 dives a day. Sometimes with friends sometimes alone where I get to dive with instabuddies, some who are very experienced and some not so experienced. Often I get paired up with good guides sometimes padi instructors but I have to dive within their dive limitations and of course mine.

 

[Blackcrusader]

After some self-reflection, GUE fundies is not for everyone.

Just as sidemount is not for everyone, or deco dives, or CCR, or multi mixed gas dives to 100m depth. GUE It's not for me. On diving vacations people will ask what courses I have done with what agencies. I tell them there are many agencies but of course the instructor is the one you learn from so look into the instructors background. I mention agencies like BSAC CMAS GUE TDI etc that a lot of padi divers have never heard of. If anything now I am inclined to tell padi divers to do the TDI ANDP course rather than say the padi deep dive course or the padi tech 40 course. They can look into the online information and decide for themselves.