DIR- GUE Why are non-GUE divers so interested in what GUE does?

[Adobo]

It was never my point and GUE do some amazing diving across all circumstances.

The reason many non-GUE divers are interested in what GUE do in the name of DIR is simply learning what others do. A wider knowledge benefits everyone.

Questions are not an attack on GUE. However, GUE doesn’t have a monopoly on diving. It’s a system used by some with many others not using it.

Most extreme dives and penetrations are absolutely not DIR/GUE compliant. Again, the Pierce Resurgence as an example of many.

Understood.

Maybe I should not even be butting in since this sub-conversation is between you and pfcaj. It was just that you seemed to think the configuration in pfcaj's pic was somehow not usable for deep wrecks when in fact, that configuration has been used in several deep wreck projects.

Having said all that, let me bow out. I am no better than a layperson when it comes to the diving you guys are talking about.

 

[Celt]

I come here to see what new exploration or discovery's are being made as I love to explore new shipwrecks. Not much luck though. Just someone complaining about a harness and the like. Like frustrated mothers complaining about their children's dress sense.

 

[ginti]

I come here to see what new exploration or discovery's are being made as I love to explore new shipwrecks.

Not the right place here. The good ones are Facebook and Instagram, where we share all the projects we do.

 

[Celt]

Not the right place here. The good ones are Facebook and Instagram, where we share all the projects we do.

I believe GUE are involved in the Mars project, some brilliant work done.

 

[ginti]

I believe GUE are involved in the Mars project, some brilliant work done.

Mars is a GUE project.

Another amazing project, if you are interested, is the Egadi project. Unfortunately, only some metal parts of the ancient roman wrecks are still visible, the wood deteriorated, as you can see from the video.

There are really many others...

 

[mariosx]

You imply that you only ever dive in huge no-restriction caves. Obviously only applicable to a very limited number of sites and not appropriate for any smaller caves nor wreck diving.

I would suggest that statistically looks far more likely to be the other way around.. with smaller caves with restrictions tight enough to not fit a non-"DIR" diver but large enough to fit a diver with a smaller profile being a tiny minority.

Assuming we could rank all caves with respect to the diameter of their tightest spot, and let's say a "DIR"-diver can access any dive site with diameter larger than 60cm, where a non-"DIR" diver any dive site with diameter larger than 40cm, do you seriously think that the number off caves between 40-60cm is larger than the number of caves between 60cm-infinity? I mean... if it's true it's extremely counter intuitive.

 

[Pipehorse]

The reason many non-GUE divers are interested in what GUE do in the name of DIR is simply learning what others do. A wider knowledge benefits everyone.

Questions are not an attack on GUE. However, GUE doesn’t have a monopoly on diving. It’s a system used by some with many others not using it.

This is the best answer I have seen to the OP's original question. Most of the rest of this thread is OT.

 

[jadairiii]

You imply that you only ever dive in huge no-restriction caves. Obviously only applicable to a very limited number of sites and not appropriate for any smaller caves nor wreck diving.

I believe you would be surprised at some of the caves the WKPP dives and how tight they are.

 

[Wibble]

DIR is best known for backmount doubles. GUE have recently — last couple or four years — has now developed a sidemount course/certification. Kind of as a speciality course and (AFAIAA) is restricted to experienced technical divers only and it is not possible to do fundies in sidemount.

Does this mean that sidemount is now mainstream and DIR compliant?

It should be as I’ve used sidemount with a longhose and necklaced shorthose for years. Can barely tell the difference except for breathing both sides down and it’s so much nicer than backmount. I digress.

If GUE now support sidemount this shows evolution in adopting appropriate technologies that aren’t only for big caves. Sidemount is appropriate for open water, wreck penetrations, shore diving, solo diving, and of course gnarly caves as beloved by UK sump divers and in most other countries.

What’s great is the simplicity of being able to transport separate cylinders — caving them to the sump or carrying them over the shoreline. Whatever.


Some of the comments on this thread show a rather parochial outlook on diving techniques of other divers. My dive today on a deep wreck had 10 divers with a combined rebreather diving experience of well over 100 years. One even reading a book at deco. All diving independently but all helping out on the boat. Not one was diving with two stages left, the third bailout where used would be hung on the right hand side (lean bailout left and one or two deco cylinders right).

Similarly with caving. Most sump divers are cavers who dive, not divers who cave. That’s also common in the US I believe. It’s not all DIR/GUE by a very long way.

Again, to stress, this isn’t a dig at GUE. It’s to point out that diving wasn’t invented by DIR which evolved out of the specific circumstances of Florida et al caves.

 

[mariosx]

Does this mean that sidemount is now mainstream and DIR compliant?

Not mainstream but "DIR" compliant after the necessary "DIR" training and proper (according to "DIR") utilization.

None of the "DIR" agencies I know competes on who did it first, this goes against all purpose. In the worst case there is a competention on who does safer, and only limited to specific cases.

It should be as I’ve used sidemount with a longhose and necklaced shorthose for years. Can barely tell the difference except for breathing both sides down and it’s so much nicer than backmount. I digress.

Good for you, I guess? What is the rational behind requesting GUE changing their standards to fit your perspective? Having GUE agree with you and approve your style of diving? I know of people that dive for decades without being certified, even beyond recreational limits. Should also GUE endorse diving without training and certification because some people have done it and believe that it's ok? It's a bit hard to follow the purpose of this post.

Seriously there are a bunch of other scuba organizations out there that already can support anybody to switch to sidemount with minimal effort. Nobody is pressing anybody to get in GUE and remain a GUE diver. GUE is not even popular enough, such as PADI, to be a monopoly. Every GUE diver (with few very very lucky exceptions) found GUE after a lot of search, joined GUE after a big investment in money/time/effort and choose to continue be a member of GUE every single day. Every GUE diver choses to not dive with a sidemount before they become experienced enough for GUE standards. So... if you are asking why GUE divers choose to not dive with sidemount in open water, the simple response is because it fits better to their style of diving, the same way you prefer sidemount in open water instead of backmount.

Again, to stress, this isn’t a dig at GUE. It’s to point out that diving wasn’t invented by DIR which evolved out of the specific circumstances of Florida et al caves.

Nobody in GUE believes that diving was invented by "DIR". Not sure where you got this impression. Even back in the time they chose "Doing It Right" over "Doing It First".

Also "DIR" indeed evolved out of specific circumstances of FLorida caves, but it doesn't seem that it cannot be applied universaly with few exceptions that I am anaware of (possibly due to lack of experience). Also the Internet was developed from USDD, but here we are using it to argue about minor details on a recreational sport. It looks like the same techniques that could be used for fast encrypted communication for military operations, could be used also for this discussion. Similarly it looks like that some rules for safe cave diving in High Springs Florida, could be used for safe diving in open-water, caves, shipwrecks, etc in the other side of the planet.

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I haven't see anybody here claiming that diving your way is something you should stop doing and convert to GUE. All the GUE members in the posts I read simply say that they prefer diving the GUE way and that they consider it a better fit for their diving style.