DIR- GUE Why are non-GUE divers so interested in what GUE does?

[Subcooled]

So if you're not GUE trained and you're constantly trying to figure out what and why GUE does something, why?

Curiosity and willingness to learn are a gift.

Three possible causes for not attending GUE training:

#1 GUE training is not economically viable.
- yes, there actually are people that cannot afford it
- the cost of PADI courses does add up, but once you have a couple of them...
- it is easy to criticize this point, if "to afford" is a matter of prioritization, but sometimes there are hard limits.

#2 GUE training is not locally available. See #1

#3 GUE does not train the type of diving you do. Rare but possible.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

This discussion saddens me a fair bit. This idea that only an "elite few" can earn a GUE fundies rec pass is simply false. Teach NB/T in open water, require solid basic skills in all following training courses (if any) and a rec pass is a easily attainable.

If you build a house on sand, it won't stand up in a storm. Build it on rock, and it will.

If students are "failing" fundies left and right, their OW instructor is to blame. Not GUE setting the bar too high. Their instructor who certified them placed it too low.

We have to be honest in that most training under WRSTC agencies sucks. Therein lies the problem, not GUE's "high" standards. I don't consider GUE's standards high. I consider them to be appropriate.

 

[Wibble]

Most people could meet the standards given sufficient quality training and coaching with other suitably motivated people.

Whether they want to or need to is a completely different matter. Seems that most divers do follow-the-DiveMaster and are happy with minimal effort training and dive skills.

It’s this that makes the initial move to technical training so difficult. Most recreational divers have never seen anyone with rock solid core skills. Fundies sets the bar high but this is a prerequisite to any technical career.

 

[tursiops]

We have to be honest in that most training under WRSTC agencies sucks.

Saying this over and over and over doesn't make it true.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

Saying this over and over and over doesn't make it true.

Denying it over and over doesn't make it untrue. If it wasn't true, GUE fundies wouldn't exist.

 

[Lorenzoid]

Curiosity and willingness to learn are a gift.

Three possible causes for not attending GUE training:

#1 GUE training is not economically viable.
- yes, there actually are people that cannot afford it
- the cost of PADI courses does add up, but once you have a couple of them...
- it is easy to criticize this point, if "to afford" is a matter of prioritization, but sometimes there are hard limits.

#2 GUE training is not locally available. See #1

#3 GUE does not train the type of diving you do. Rare but possible.

I can understand why someone who has determined they are in the first or second categories may continue to participate in threads about GUE: they may believe their circumstances could change in the future. But we do see people in the third category continue to participate in threads about GUE. Cynics here have posited that such people participate mostly to denigrate GUE's procedures or philosophies. I suppose a less cynical way to say that would be that they participate to (oh so helpfully) offer a counterpoint view. (Okay, the "oh so helpfully" was my own bit of cynicism.)

 

[tursiops]

Denying it over and over doesn't make it untrue. If it wasn't true, GUE fundies wouldn't exist.

Maybe you missed the part about Fundies being invented to solve the problem of those who were not ready for cave/technical training. The majority -- almost all -- of those being trained under your hated WRSTC agencies (for whom you teach) have zero interest in cave or technical training, and lead a very pleasant recreational-diving life.

 

[jadairiii]

I decided to give you this one tidbit for your consideration and personal research. What you describe is not the bell curve. It is the J-curve, which describes the phenomenon of a small group not succeeding while the overwhelming majority reaches or exceeds standard performance. It is the theoretical opposite of the bell curve. The J-curve is the normal result of scuba instruction.

Thus, we are back to the basis of my (and other's) argument, scuba certifications are "bought". I would find it hard to believe anyone, after spending a few weeks working (or diving on) the cattle boats in South Florida, would make the statement that the "overwhelming majority [of divers] reaches or exceeds standard performance".

But you may be right, set the standards low enough, everyone passes, and you have your J-Curve.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

Maybe you missed the part about Fundies being invented to solve the problem of those who were not ready for cave/technical training. The majority -- almost all -- of those being trained under your hated WRSTC agencies (for whom you teach) have zero interest in cave or technical training, and lead a very pleasant recreational-diving life.

Mel,

Given that I used to go to 5th dimension, owned by the former business partner of AG, I'm quite familiar with the roots of fundies.
It sounds like it you haven't taken the course. As has beens stated clearly on the GUE website and by those who actually have experience taking the course, basic scuba skills are being covered: buoyancy (open water material), proper weighting (open water material), finning (more advanced than just open water, but definitely should be advanced open water material), controlled ascents/descents (open water material), DSMB deployment (open water material).

The only thing really beyond open water is team based diving, but that's a mindset and awareness. If all the above recreational skills were taught properly and consistently, AG wouldn't have created this course to just cover team based diving.

 

[BlueTrin]

It’s a question I always want to ask but I wonder if it will anger some people. I think that’s similar to what @Wibble is asking.

Is there any plans to have a ‘recreational’ CCR configuration (for depths similar to TDI extended range), I understand that the GUE JJ-CCR is a good configuration for exploration/complex dives, but maybe there is a demand for something more intermediate, or are we saying that there is no such thing?