Why are 2 AOW-level divers allowed to dive unaccompanied?

[Wingy]

Its never an issue until there is an incident.....its not like they are there checking your cert cards at the airports, but if something happens, its the jurisdiction of the police to investigate. Not like you see them underwater..or at all come to think of it until then.

 

[alewar]

Highly enforced by the Police in French Polynesia. My dive op of choice on Rangiroa made it very clear when I arrived the other two other divers were PADI AOW and PADI OW both with less than 50 dives so DM would be keeping them at 18m. I am CMAS certified so dove below them but within sight of them at all times.

One of the divers (cramp and panic situation) ended up in trouble and was admitted to the clinic - by the time he was transported to the clinic police were waiting and all the gear of all divers was seized by the Gendarmes who analysed computers and cameras to make sure all divers were within their limits. Police interviewed all of us the next morning. So, there are scuba police. If the dive centre had been found to have taken divers below the legal limitations of their certification they would be held liable for the incident, in this case the police concluded the investigation politely and pleasantly

Are you serious about that? It seems those officers have nothing better to do..

 

[Nemrod]

Put simply for recreational divers:

a) We should only dive to depths from which we feel confident of making a CESA comfortably.

b) Beyond these depths we should have an agreement with our buddy so that both of us can surface safely in event of a catastrophic gear malfunction.

c) Diving does not require a license. Anyone can dive. However suppliers of scuba equipment and services can be held liable for diving accidents.

d) This is the difference between should and must.

I would agree with most of that, but for the CESA! Yes, or carry a redundant air supply below those individually determined depths. The vast majority of over weight, even obese, out of shape, under trained, over equipped divers of today could not manage a CESA from 30 feet and are hard pressed to do a free dive of 15 feet.

Obviously then the majority of these divers rely upon an equally over weight, even obese, out of shape, under trained, over equipped buddy to supply their redundancy and this is a bad thing. Fortunately, SCUBA is a safe sport and these types of people manage every day many dives worldwide without killing themselves, somehow, mostly providence I suppose.

But, I do not want the government involved. I tell you folks, if the government ever codifies diving into the CFRs most of you cats will find your diving days done. And those who remain will find it no longer fun or free. In a free world adults should be allowed to take any risks they so deem suitable to themselves and if they die as a result, so be it. As long as they are able to make informed decisions, I have no problem with people killing themselves though I prefer, generally, that they stop just short of that goal.

N

 

[Wingy]

Who investigates diving accidents in the US? are the police not involved?

They actually dont have a lot to do - so an investigation is done swiftly that day then and there and wrapped up if possible, which is what happened. I found nothing intrusive about it all. Of course would rather not have met the gendarmes under those circumstances but not a problem at all.

Other ops arent so strict, I choose to dive with CMAS ops who do strictly adhere to the law. Theres other options but if the SHTF the FP Police will become involved no matter which op.

 

[kr2y5]

Are there people standing on the beach checking cert cards or do you have to file a dive plan when you get an air fill? Seriously wondering how such an idea is enforced.

I would assume that DAN can refuse to pay if the diver was diving outside the established limits, and that it would also put you at a disadvantage if you need to sue a boat operator or whomever for negligence, but I may be wrong... I would be curious to know how it works in practice.

 

[drrich2]

Who investigates diving accidents in the US? are the police not involved?

What I believe some of us find objectionable is the police, unsolicited by the affected diver, showing up and digging into things to see if they can find something to charge somebody with. Even if nobody filed a complaint or pressed charges.

While a law enforcement (police) force is generally necessarily in most any large society, the extent to which that force should try to micromanage our lives (e.g.: policing how deep a recreational scuba diver dives!) and how intrusive they should be in this pursuit (e.g.: showing up uninvited and seizing dive computers to find out of they have actionable grounds to charge someone with something) are controversial matters.

One issue that helped the U.S. get its start was opposition to 'taxation without representation' and our system of requiring search warrants for some types of police intrusion is a modern day expression of where, as a county, we 'draw the line.' Our concern about the NSA spying on us in our own country reflects that concern. Many people never want to see something like this:

One of the divers (cramp and panic situation) ended up in trouble and was admitted to the clinic - by the time he was transported to the clinic police were waiting and all the gear of all divers was seized by the Gendarmes who analysed computers and cameras to make sure all divers were within their limits. Police interviewed all of us the next morning. So, there are scuba police.

The degree of government control in France, at least in this matter, is likely to annoy some of us.

Richard.

 

[EastEndDiver]

France isn't that strict my father told me that he entered France without a passport with no problems at all in ....................in 1944.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Where I live, fresh out of OW divers frequently buddy up together and go dive unaccompanied. In fact, my first few dives after OW class were with someone who had gone through the same class I did. Our instructor encouraged us to go diving ... "keep it simple, keep it shallow, and learn from your mistakes" was his advice ... and it served us well.

We simply don't do guided dives here ... and the only thing I've ever wanted a dive guide for in any part of the world wasn't to tell me where I could or couldn't dive, but to go find me some cool critters to take pictures of ... then kindly move aside.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[kafkaland]

Where I live, fresh out of OW divers frequently buddy up together and go dive unaccompanied. In fact, my first few dives after OW class were with someone who had gone through the same class I did. Our instructor encouraged us to go diving ... "keep it simple, keep it shallow, and learn from your mistakes" was his advice ... and it served us well.

We simply don't do guided dives here ... and the only thing I've ever wanted a dive guide for in any part of the world wasn't to tell me where I could or couldn't dive, but to go find me some cool critters to take pictures of ... then kindly move aside.

Same thing here. I recently went through OW and AOW, and afterwards the instructor suggested that "you've gotten to know your buddy quite well - you should go out and dive together". And club dives are really dives of independent buddy teams, perhaps with a seasoned diver keeping an eye on everything and making things run smoothly.

 

[Frosty]

actually folks -what wingy is posting rings true.I was looking to go diving next easter in New Calidonia and I'm struggling to find a dive op.
Reading whats going on it sounds pretty serious.Not the usual relaxed stuff from around the pacific