Who trained these idiots??

[jghflash]

That's a ballsy move to be lobstering at Oil Slick since it is located AT the STINAPA headquarters! Do remember that lobstering is legal on Bonaire from November 1 to April 30, so if it was during that period it was OK. As always, some folks think that the rules don't necessarily apply to them......thus the subject of this thread!

it would be a little difficult for the police to try to perform Marine Park Ranger duties and near impossible for the BNMP Rangers to be policemen. When you have 75 dive sites along a 30 or 40 mile coast line, and hundreds of divers going in the water 24/7 multiple times per day, it is kind of unrealistic to think they can observe everything. That is why the dive operators, in conjunction with STINAPA, are tasked with providing a marine park briefing for every diver that comes to Bonaire. Everyone should then be made aware of the rules before they start their dive holiday.......but you can't control stupidity.

The idiots in question here did receive a briefing and did sign a release stating they understood the rules and would obey them. Some of thier videos show them entering the water NOT wearing their gloves....but then wearing them when they harass the marine life. Not much anyone could reasonably do about that when they actively hide the evidence. Pretty much a premeditated plan it would seem.

The beauty of Bonaire is that freedom to dive when and where you want from the shore. It is why most people come here. By definition there is not a guide with them as we all generally have on boat dives in most other dive destinations. Unfortunately that may be what drew them to Bonaire, the ability to do ridiculous and socially unacceptable things on their dives without anyone to tell them no. Their blatant disregard for the rules has now gotten them an invitation to dive anywhere except Bonaire.

I think I can say this since I am from Texas, but with them being from the Oklahoma and Texas area, maybe cow chip tossing would be a good alternative sport for them!

It's hard to talk to people that have their mind made up already. My point is enforcement. I don't see why one agency couldn't enforce dive rules and law. If that means an extra $25-$50 on the dive tag, so be it. I know the theft thing has been driven into the ground, I'm not trying to resurrect that, I just happen to think more law enforcement presence may help both. Someone may have seen this going on, but who are they to report it to? I saw dudes hide lobstering equipment when we pulled up to oil slick, but do you think I'm carrying a cellphone and leaving it in my truck? Getting your pitchforks out on the internet doesn't do too much, I think law enforcement patrols would.

 

[Redshift]

Unbelievable behaviour!
And I don't agree that a SCUBA certification should be granted solely based on skills. That would be OK if they'd be diving in a swimming pool, but since they'll be diving in the Nature, a respectful attitude is needed.
In fact, this is part of CMAS 10 golden rules

Dive like your shadow, do not leave any trace and be a sensible part of the underwater world, not an alien.

1. Never enter the water through reed, living corals or water plants.
2. Control your buoyancy.
3. Keep distance from corals and other animals and do not stir up sediment.
4. Take care where you drop your anchor during boat dives.
5. Do not chase, touch or feed wild animals.
6. Do not spearfish for fun and do not buy or collect any souvenirs such as corals and shells.
7. Be very careful when diving in caves. Bubbles or any simple contact may destroy delicate life.
8. Keep diving places clean.
9. Learn about the underwater life and avoid any destruction.
10. Urge your buddies to follow these rules too.

it's part of BSAC's policies on conservation

As divers, it’s in our interest to look after it, not only for our own enjoyment but for that of future generations.
At the very least, we should not do any damage to the places where we dive. But we are also uniquely placed to become directly and actively involved in the protection and management of our diving environment.
Protecting our marine environment - British Sub-Aqua Club

it's in the NAUI dive centre code of ethics and their training (Unit 15)

• Commitment to the aquatic environment – I will instill by instruction and example respect for and a desire to preserve the aquatic environment.

SSI has its EcoLogical code of practice

• Environmentally sound dive briefings.

• Hands off! policy for all divers and dive leaders.

• Takes part in regular beach & dive site clean-ups.

• Offers Perfect Buoyancy Specialty.

• Responsible waste management.

• No cigarette butts in the water.

• No shell or coral collection.

• No litter overboard.

• No fish feeding.

and it's briefly mentioned in PADI's expectations of a 5 star centre (and probably in the training although I couldn't find info on that)

These dive shops also actively promote underwater environmental awareness and embrace the PADI System of diver education(...)

I'm sure it's something addressed and evaluated in all dive agencies.

 

[DiverVince]

The ******* Diver...The suggested appropriate title to Chapter IX of open water course recommended to be taught by dive certifying agencies..Below from STINAPA to these divers..
It is hard to believe that there are still people that are so disrespectful. This is a real life example of what should not be done while diving. Not on Bonaire or anywhere else. This video can perfectly be used for didactic purposes in a new session of the Open Water courses. Chapter IX THE ******* DIVER. I hope PADI, NAUI, SSI or any other certification agency use it in their next version of the OW

• Video demonstrates how not to behave under water. The video was uploaded by the divers themselves. Here's an email all divers involved in this incident were sent by Bonaire National Marine Park Manager, Ramon de Leon:
  Dear ....,
  As you probably know Bonaire have been protecting their reefs since 1979. Many diving and environment pioneers have forged what is considered today one of the most advanced environmental legislation of the whole Caribbean and many generations of Bonaireans have embraced nature conservation and management very deeply.
  Since early tourism development, Bonaire has been receiving thousands of visitors a year and the pressure in our natural resources increases accordingly. To minimize such impact, the Local Government and the Bonaire National Marine Park, implemented several laws and regulation. Dive operators we have been communicating those laws and regulations to all visitors for more than 30 years.
  You visit our Island in December 2013/January 2014 and I’m sure that such laws were properly communicated to you and you also sign a liability release indicating you were aware of such laws.
  Few videos were made public showing most of you wearing gloves, some of you harassing marine life, touching the reef and showing little to non buoyancy control. I would like to express my most absolute disappointment to the way you behave on Bonaire and the way you disrespect Bonaire’s marine life, conservation laws and ultimately Bonaire’s people trust.
  Bonaire opens its door for you to visit and enjoy, we allow you to access our most valuable natural assets and in return you deliberately decide to break the law and the trust we put on you. We welcome all visitors, we live from tourism and nature is our livehood, all we ask in return is for you to respect our rules, culture and traditions.
  If you are not willing to give us the required respect in return, you are no longer welcome here and we do not want you business anymore. If the way you behave during your last visit is the way you normally dive and interact with marine life, please refrain from coming back to Bonaire.
  If you really love nature and marine life I strongly suggest you to sign up for retraining programs or quit diving. You are not making any favor to future generations.
  ***********************************
  Ramón de León.
  Bonaire National Marine Park Manager

---------- Post added May 22nd, 2014 at 09:41 AM ----------

It's hard to talk to people that have their mind made up already. My point is enforcement. I don't see why one agency couldn't enforce dive rules and law. If that means an extra $25-$50 on the dive tag, so be it. I know the theft thing has been driven into the ground, I'm not trying to resurrect that, I just happen to think more law enforcement presence may help both. Someone may have seen this going on, but who are they to report it to? I saw dudes hide lobstering equipment when we pulled up to oil slick, but do you think I'm carrying a cellphone and leaving it in my truck? Getting your pitchforks out on the internet doesn't do too much, I think law enforcement patrols would.

Just wanted to clarify for the record, as JGHFLASH pointed out earlier, taking of lobster is legal during the time period you were on island; however the allowed area to harvest lobster is on portions of the east side only. The fact that you observed folks hiding lobstering equipment at Oil Slick is not prima facie evidence of an illegal activity unless you directly observed them trying to do harvest lobster at Oil Slick. Personally I doubt that was the case.

With respect to your comments on enforcement, let me also clarify. STINAPA has many other duties (maintenance of national park, repairing the dive buoys, maintenance work on Klein, training new rangers etc etc) outside of trying to monitor what the hundreds of certified divers on a daily basis are actually doing underwater. This is especially material to this case, since (I'll be nice here) "the perps" concealed the gloves they were wearing when entering the water. I would suggest it is up to us as fellow divers who witness material transgressions of dive etiquette to notify STINAPA of same and give them pertinent details, time, place, license plate number, what was observed or video of same so they can act accordingly while the transgressors are still on island. In essence, as part of the dive community, we also have the obligation to assist them in their efforts.

 

[T.C.]

It's hard to talk to people that have their mind made up already. My point is enforcement. I don't see why one agency couldn't enforce dive rules and law. If that means an extra $25-$50 on the dive tag, so be it. I know the theft thing has been driven into the ground, I'm not trying to resurrect that, I just happen to think more law enforcement presence may help both. Someone may have seen this going on, but who are they to report it to? I saw dudes hide lobstering equipment when we pulled up to oil slick, but do you think I'm carrying a cellphone and leaving it in my truck? Getting your pitchforks out on the internet doesn't do too much, I think law enforcement patrols would.

It would take far more than that to build an effective patrol. One or two cops to ride around won't solve the problem of crime. The roads are narrow, and there are not that many.

How would you solve this? All a thief needs is one lookout, and they are safe as houses. The crime problem from the locals can be lessened by economic measures, not law enforcement and patrols. The remaining crime is not economically motivated, but, like in the case of gypsyjim, ass-hat divers who are just jerks. No amount of patrolling deters them; as humans have been learning for 6,000+ years.

 

[gypsyjim]

Laws and rules are little deterrent to those who feel they either do not apply to them, or figure they will get away with it.

example from the US: NC Restaurant Posts ?No Guns? Sign and Then Gets Robbed at Gunpoint

NC has plenty of cops, tons of laws, and lots and lots of signs. Maybe this creep couldn't read the sign....

 

[ktomlinson]

Patrolling may not be the most efficient choice, but it's better than sitting around acting like there's nothing that can be done. Give me a month on the island and I guarantee id find out who is doing it. Where do you think all the batteries and radios go? It's a small place, someone's buying the stolen stuff. Do a sting, put a gps in a battery, track it. Make an example out of them.

 

[T.C.]

Patrolling may not be the most efficient choice, but it's better than sitting around acting like there's nothing that can be done. Give me a month on the island and I guarantee id find out who is doing it. Where do you think all the batteries and radios go? It's a small place, someone's buying the stolen stuff. Do a sting, put a gps in a battery, track it. Make an example out of them.

You go do that. Tell me how well it turns out when a non-native, non-local language, non-Law Enforcement trained outsider tries to investigate this. By the way; I did this very same thing for two years in Iraq and Aghanistan, trying to investigate much more easy to track "crimes". Go do your little sting. I've done things like that before. Don't be suprised when nothing happens to it.

Why? Because crime is exceedingly rare on Bonaire. You'll have to leave your bait out for a very long time before anything happens- if at all. Bonaire is not a "small place". Look at it from the air sometime, and consider that all that land is well known by the locals, and not well at all by the outsiders. I could give you the resources of your entire local police force, and they wouldn't solve this problem. The idea that outsiders, whether you or the cops, will be able to do anything does not conform to reality. Otherwise, our well-trained and equipped police forces here in the States would have long ago solved crime as a problem here.

Who will pay for all this police work; the GPS units, tracking devices, recievers, aircraft, officers, vehicles, supervisors, equipment, manhours, training, etc.? The locals? They don't have much more to give. The well-off locals? You think they'll vote to tax themselves to protect you? The tourists? What do you think will happen when a new $150 "crime tax" is implemented on the tourists? Do you think that Bonaire will continue to experience it's growth in tourism? Or will it shrink back in obsurity as the other islands in the Caribbean gladly absorb the tourism money once spent there?

As for where it goes? Probably back into another car. This is real small time crime we're dealing with. There isn't much profit in old batteries and cheap radios. Second, you wouldn't catch the real criminals with your sting. All you'd catch are the low men on the totem pole, the guy getting $5 for the battery and the radio. I ran into the same problem in Iraq. The guy on the side of the road planting the bomb? He doesn't give a rip about fighting the Infidels. He's a guy doing what it takes to feed his starving family. If that means taking a chance of dying to put a bomb in a hole for $5-$10, then he did it. It fed his family. We still detained him, but there were 10 others to take his place. It continued until we were able to help develop economic improvement with jobs and contracts.

The way forward is not expensive, ineffective police action. It is creating economic oppurtunities for them; allowing another means of income other than getting $5 to steal and give the junk to the middleman.

 

[ktomlinson]

I don't actually want to do it, it was a figure of speech. If the locals don't want to do it, why would I? Theft is not rare on Bonaire. Have you actually talked to a local? It's rampant. Especially during the festival season when people (that don't have economic opportunities, this is true) steal for a few bucks. Sure, I'm happy that it's not murder or string arm robbery, but it was enough to make my group look elsewhere for diving options, and many of the group have been to Bonaire numerous times. By the way, I didn't suffer too much when our truck was broken into, it was the local dive op that suffered because they paid for the stuff. Think about this. Why isn't anyone stealing tanks? Because they are marked and the local police take THAT seriously.

 

[T.C.]

I don't actually want to do it, it was a figure of speech.

A poorly chosen one at that. But it did let me point out that law enforcement is not going to solve this problem.

Theft is not rare on Bonaire. Have you actually talked to a local? It's rampant.

No. Crime is not "rampant". You want to talk to a local, there's already one on this thread. Say hello to DiverVince. He's a really nice guy.

You have what is called confirmation bias. You got robbed, ergo crime is high. If you had not been robbed, you wouldn't be here talking about it, and wishing there were expensive stings, tracking devices, and patrols, or wishing that you could do something about it. Your experience is affecting your perception. But that perception is not reality. This is again evidenced by the item you chose to present for GPS tracking; a battery. Petty items are more often stolen than things like a battery, but you still chose a battery, the same item that you had stolen.

By the way, your dive op didn't suffer very badly. They paid about $50 bucks and got the battery and radio back. Annoying, but not a big deal. There are decent odds it was the same battery and radio too.

Think about this. Why isn't anyone stealing tanks? Because they are marked and the local police take THAT seriously.

You are only partly correct. They don't steal them because they are marked, but not because the police take "that seriously". The police have no more ability to recover a tank than they do a camera, T-shirt...or car battery. It is not the threat of law enforcement that deters them.

They don't steal tanks because there is no profit in it. Think about it. So they steal a tank. What will they do with it? They can't sell it for scrap; no recycler will buy stolen merchandise. They can't get it filled; no shop will fill a stolen tank. And even if they did fill them, what would they do with them? Rent them to a diver who is already getting a free tank? Who would trust that tank too?

That tank is utterly worthless to a thief.

They won't waste time stealing a heavy paperweight. Look beyond the obvious and look for the second or third order effects. You may see that this anger (righteous as it is, after all, you were a crime victim, and you probably did nothing wrong) is misplaced.

 

[redacted]

I really like this idea of adding $50 to the dive park fee.

That would probably produce between $500K and $1M a year to fight this hideous crime that is probably costing tourists $5k to $10K a year in stolen goods. Well, I guess there would be an overhead on the order of 10% but the rest could be used to counter that crime wave.

I stopped at Rose Inn for lunch a couple weeks ago. We left all of our gear in the back of a couple PUs. Try doing that any place else.