OP
Jeff, thanks for your post. I'll address your questions in order.
1.When I elected to get certified I knew nothing about Scubaboard or for that matter certification agencies. At the time there was only one LDS open near enough to me to make training possible. (Actually there was one about a 1/2 hour away but it's a long half hour and with what I've seen come out of it and the attitude of some of it's instructors I'm glad I did not go with them.)
The shop/instructor I elected to go with was PADI and as I said I did not know any other agency existed. I came to find out there were other independent instructors in the area but they were not in the yellow pages under scuba. The instructor I chose came across as knowledgeable and professional at our first meeting. He knows the OW manual almost to a word. I bought the materials and in two days completed the whole book. This was actually encouraged. Made things easier for him. We went over all of it in 3 or 4 class sessions. did like 3 pool sessions and then checkout dives. All of this was according to standards and I felt like a natural in the water and was told I was. Fine so far. But it soon became apparent that my classes were actually they exception. Because I saw "divers" after me go thru it with mich less time and they did not seem as comfortable in the water. But I was told that this was ok and expected because it meant they would come back for more training.
Ok fine, I did not know any better. Soon I was being persuaded to take more in order to do different types of dives, and then asked about doing Dive Master. I was told I could make money, would get all kinds of discounts and perks, and that the PADI program was the best in the world. Better than what I asked him because up until now the only exposure to other instructors even was when we went to our lake to dive and he pointed out the deficiencies of other instructors. So I started DM since I was already acting as another set of eyes on dives with newerr people. About this time I also discovered this board. Holy Crap! Why Had I never heard of any of this before. There were other agencies and other programs that do not push people into taking all kinds of classes for what I now see as basic or out and out useless things. While I did have to learn new theory as DM I soon grew disenchanted and then disgusted with the focus on marketing and seeling over dive skills and theory. Why wasn't deco theory covered better, where was more in depth gas planning. I teach more gas management in OW than PADI requires thru DM!
And soon it was apparent that compared to other agencies DM's were very limited and thru reading and actually living it, it was more like indentured servitude. I was minding the shop, setting up displays, helping with classes, shlepping tanks and cleaning gear and I still had to pay as much as the DM candidates who showed up for dives and classes and that's it. Along with that diving as DM became boring because that's really all this instructo did except for a couple trips to the springs and a StLawrence trip once a year. I was a babysitter and this hot home with me on a checkout dive when I was supposed to be watching students and I dozed off 25 ft underwater while hanging off the side of the platform. Right then and there I nearly gave up any professional aspirations.
Fortunately that day I nad been talking to another instructor who was in doubles and I began to ask him about his rig. He ended up being my NAUI tech instructor. This was what I needed. Something different. I took intro to tech and Helitrox. He also turned out to be YMCA Instructor trainer and one of the guys my PADI Instructor badmouthed. I could not see why. Everything that I was told he was not good at he was. He also introduced me to the NAUI philosophy and the YMCA program set up. He never pushed anything on me. But what I saw made me go to him and ask about a crossover to YMCA DM because Y DM's were actually allowed to teach! Under supervision of course but I could prepare and give lectures, conduct pool sessions,and I did not have to pay a couple grand to do it! I began the crossover process and was soon a YMCA DM then AI and the philosophy of a skills and education based program as opposed to one based on marketing and selling was right in line with my own style, beliefs, and ethics. THey did not push gear or courses beyond OW from day one. It was all about comprehensive training and getting skill down over all else. The needs of the student come before anything else. When the Y program closed I was angry and disappointed. Then Tom Leaird, Dan Marelli, Ken Nemeth, and some others got the idea to form a new agency because a skills and education based program was too valuable to let die.
I came on board immediately and have been involved as much as possible. We not only have continued the program but actually toughened some of the standards. Swimming skills are still required, no mask, snorkel, fin options. 32 hours of training in addition to OW checkout dives. Weekend courses are prohibited. The instructor spends 16 hours in pool and 16 in the classroom. I can see when a student may not be getting it and stop right there and address it rather than taking the chance that it might be glossed over or missed. And independents are fully supported.
Had I known about these things before I would not have spent so much money and time taking all kinds of specialties. I would not have had to find out so many things on my own which while worthwhile delayed other things that really interest me. I would not have the feelings of guilt I sometimes have now when I see people who I sold gear to that did not need it. I would not have put in so many hours pushing people thru classes while being a DM to get them in the water. And I would not have recommended so many useless classes because as a PADI DM that's what I was expected to do to support the "dive center".
2. I know of 4 programs personally that I researched or was part of that offer more comprehensive education because standards require it. BSAC, CMAS, NAUI, and my agency SEI. All have watermanship standards higher than PADI's. Rescue skills are part of the OW class. SEI requires a minimum of 32 hours of instruction plus checkouts. NAUI and SEI require skin diving skills and a skin dive for checkouts. I believe CMAS and BSAC do as well. Quickie courses are not allowed by SEI. NAUI and SEI are non profit agencies. SEI standards require the needs of the student be put before the shop. Yes I need to make money to continue to teach, the agency must also to stay in operation. But that should never come before making sure that a new OW diver is capable of diving without a DM/AI/Instructor in conditions similar to or better than what they trained in. I can refuse to certify someone based on whether or not I feel they are comfortable enough in the water regardless of how well they do the skills. My class is 6-8 weeks long. THis is the norm for SEI courses. Did you cover deco in your OW class? We do. Did you bring an unconscious diver from depth? We do. Did you cover boat diving in your OW class? We do that also. What about a paniced diver scenario? How much time did you spend on actual dive planning? Including site selection, exits and entries, air supply management, and how conditions affect plans? I cover all of this in OW. And while yes it is the instructor to large degree agencies that demand higher standards from their instructors and require more course content tend to turn out safer and more competent divers as a whole. Not allowing people to rush through, requiring good watermanship skills, and providing more theory tends to help as well.
1.When I elected to get certified I knew nothing about Scubaboard or for that matter certification agencies. At the time there was only one LDS open near enough to me to make training possible. (Actually there was one about a 1/2 hour away but it's a long half hour and with what I've seen come out of it and the attitude of some of it's instructors I'm glad I did not go with them.)
The shop/instructor I elected to go with was PADI and as I said I did not know any other agency existed. I came to find out there were other independent instructors in the area but they were not in the yellow pages under scuba. The instructor I chose came across as knowledgeable and professional at our first meeting. He knows the OW manual almost to a word. I bought the materials and in two days completed the whole book. This was actually encouraged. Made things easier for him. We went over all of it in 3 or 4 class sessions. did like 3 pool sessions and then checkout dives. All of this was according to standards and I felt like a natural in the water and was told I was. Fine so far. But it soon became apparent that my classes were actually they exception. Because I saw "divers" after me go thru it with mich less time and they did not seem as comfortable in the water. But I was told that this was ok and expected because it meant they would come back for more training.
Ok fine, I did not know any better. Soon I was being persuaded to take more in order to do different types of dives, and then asked about doing Dive Master. I was told I could make money, would get all kinds of discounts and perks, and that the PADI program was the best in the world. Better than what I asked him because up until now the only exposure to other instructors even was when we went to our lake to dive and he pointed out the deficiencies of other instructors. So I started DM since I was already acting as another set of eyes on dives with newerr people. About this time I also discovered this board. Holy Crap! Why Had I never heard of any of this before. There were other agencies and other programs that do not push people into taking all kinds of classes for what I now see as basic or out and out useless things. While I did have to learn new theory as DM I soon grew disenchanted and then disgusted with the focus on marketing and seeling over dive skills and theory. Why wasn't deco theory covered better, where was more in depth gas planning. I teach more gas management in OW than PADI requires thru DM!
And soon it was apparent that compared to other agencies DM's were very limited and thru reading and actually living it, it was more like indentured servitude. I was minding the shop, setting up displays, helping with classes, shlepping tanks and cleaning gear and I still had to pay as much as the DM candidates who showed up for dives and classes and that's it. Along with that diving as DM became boring because that's really all this instructo did except for a couple trips to the springs and a StLawrence trip once a year. I was a babysitter and this hot home with me on a checkout dive when I was supposed to be watching students and I dozed off 25 ft underwater while hanging off the side of the platform. Right then and there I nearly gave up any professional aspirations.
Fortunately that day I nad been talking to another instructor who was in doubles and I began to ask him about his rig. He ended up being my NAUI tech instructor. This was what I needed. Something different. I took intro to tech and Helitrox. He also turned out to be YMCA Instructor trainer and one of the guys my PADI Instructor badmouthed. I could not see why. Everything that I was told he was not good at he was. He also introduced me to the NAUI philosophy and the YMCA program set up. He never pushed anything on me. But what I saw made me go to him and ask about a crossover to YMCA DM because Y DM's were actually allowed to teach! Under supervision of course but I could prepare and give lectures, conduct pool sessions,and I did not have to pay a couple grand to do it! I began the crossover process and was soon a YMCA DM then AI and the philosophy of a skills and education based program as opposed to one based on marketing and selling was right in line with my own style, beliefs, and ethics. THey did not push gear or courses beyond OW from day one. It was all about comprehensive training and getting skill down over all else. The needs of the student come before anything else. When the Y program closed I was angry and disappointed. Then Tom Leaird, Dan Marelli, Ken Nemeth, and some others got the idea to form a new agency because a skills and education based program was too valuable to let die.
I came on board immediately and have been involved as much as possible. We not only have continued the program but actually toughened some of the standards. Swimming skills are still required, no mask, snorkel, fin options. 32 hours of training in addition to OW checkout dives. Weekend courses are prohibited. The instructor spends 16 hours in pool and 16 in the classroom. I can see when a student may not be getting it and stop right there and address it rather than taking the chance that it might be glossed over or missed. And independents are fully supported.
Had I known about these things before I would not have spent so much money and time taking all kinds of specialties. I would not have had to find out so many things on my own which while worthwhile delayed other things that really interest me. I would not have the feelings of guilt I sometimes have now when I see people who I sold gear to that did not need it. I would not have put in so many hours pushing people thru classes while being a DM to get them in the water. And I would not have recommended so many useless classes because as a PADI DM that's what I was expected to do to support the "dive center".
2. I know of 4 programs personally that I researched or was part of that offer more comprehensive education because standards require it. BSAC, CMAS, NAUI, and my agency SEI. All have watermanship standards higher than PADI's. Rescue skills are part of the OW class. SEI requires a minimum of 32 hours of instruction plus checkouts. NAUI and SEI require skin diving skills and a skin dive for checkouts. I believe CMAS and BSAC do as well. Quickie courses are not allowed by SEI. NAUI and SEI are non profit agencies. SEI standards require the needs of the student be put before the shop. Yes I need to make money to continue to teach, the agency must also to stay in operation. But that should never come before making sure that a new OW diver is capable of diving without a DM/AI/Instructor in conditions similar to or better than what they trained in. I can refuse to certify someone based on whether or not I feel they are comfortable enough in the water regardless of how well they do the skills. My class is 6-8 weeks long. THis is the norm for SEI courses. Did you cover deco in your OW class? We do. Did you bring an unconscious diver from depth? We do. Did you cover boat diving in your OW class? We do that also. What about a paniced diver scenario? How much time did you spend on actual dive planning? Including site selection, exits and entries, air supply management, and how conditions affect plans? I cover all of this in OW. And while yes it is the instructor to large degree agencies that demand higher standards from their instructors and require more course content tend to turn out safer and more competent divers as a whole. Not allowing people to rush through, requiring good watermanship skills, and providing more theory tends to help as well.
