Who hates their White Fusion Dry Suit?

[runsongas]

if it is just the outer skin, that is just cosmetic and 200 would be a great price if it doesn't need any major repairs

 

[Ross19966]

LDS said this is the only suit they will not work on because of the inner core/outer skin. Evidently it make replacing seals really difficult.

 

[Tracy]

LDS said this is the only suit they will not work on because of the inner core/outer skin. Evidently it make replacing seals really difficult.

Weird. The neck seal can be a pain because it is very flimsy and doesn't hold shape well. The wrist seals are the same as any other wrist seal. Nothing especially difficult about them. The cuffs are just velcroed in place, you can pull the outer suit up.

I am not in any way recommending a fusion, they are the worst suit I have ever dove. Just stating the seals aren't hard to replace.

 

[Zef]

I remember trying on a Fusion Drycore suit at a used suit shop along the marina just north of Downtown Seattle and it did indeed feel like getting into a sweaty trashbag though I was impressed by the slim fit. I am familiar with many waterproof membranes and how they behave in all kinds of weather conditions & climates (i.e. PTFE-based like Gore Tex, laminate-membrane-out like OutDry, and air-permeable like eVent/Future light) so I can definitely imagine the breathability of AirCore being a noticeable improvement.

A few questions for those of you that dive in AirCore suits regularly:

1. Does the "custom" slim fitting nature of the suit allow for more optimal buoyancy management at the start of a dive as well as adjusting buoyancy during a dive (and air supply usage indirectly from not needing to add/purge air excessively)

2. Is are suit modifications as easy or viable compares to other types of drysuits?

3. How does the durability hold up? The stretchy outer material seems thinner and potentially more less abrasion resistant than trilaminate or neoprene.

I have been diving an AirCore Fusion Bullet since 2018. Here are my thoughts relative to your questions:

1. The streamlined effect of the outer skin of the suit, particularly the 1mm neoprene of the Fusion Bullet, helps slow and therefore control the air bubble in the suit. If you are new to diving in a drysuit, you will still need to learn buoyancy management and will probably add/purge air, perhaps excessively, until you are comfortable diving the suit....but I believe that the form fitting aspect of the skin significantly contributes to reducing the learning curve as one can feel the bubble roll across their shoulders or down their legs instead of the air bubble shooting across or down the suit....this helps the diver learn to control buoyancy and trim more easily than in a conventional drysuit.

2. I am not sure what modifications you would want to make. The Fusion suits are a 2-piece design....the inner "Core" layer is the actual drysuit. The outer skin/shell layer is a sacrificial layer designed to streamline the suit to the diver's body and to take abrasion and snags that would otherwise compromise the drysuit. The material and features of the outer skin is dependent on the model you purchase:
Fusion Sport: skin is made of spandex with no pockets
Fusion Tech: skin is made of a combination of spandex and 1mm neoprene with pockets on left and right thighs *
Fusion Bullet: skin is made entirely of 1mm neoprene with pockets on left and right thighs *, and has Si-Tech QCS oval wrist ring system and Si-Tech Necktite neck ring system with silicone seals installed.

*Note that the pockets are different (improved) on the Fusion Bullet compared to the Fusion Tech...many folks complained about the pockets on the Fusion Tech skin.

3. I have found my Aircore suit to be durable. As I already mentioned, the skin is designed to be a sacrificial layer to take abrasion and snags that would otherwise compromise the material of a drysuit. The skin also protects the suit from UV exposure which also has a tendency to compromise drysuit material (Trilam and neoprene). The skin is replaceable for a nominal cost compared to the cost of replacing one's suit.

Spied this Whites Fusion on Marketplace just now for 200 bucks but what seems to be extensive patching around the knee is a potential red flag to me (the age too of course).

Not that I'm in a position to buy as I cannot see myself returning to regular diving until at least a year or two out.

Do think a used suit at this price given a better condition would be great snag whenever I do get back to diving?

The Aircore fabric was introduced after Whites was bought by Aqualung...so any Fusion suit marked "Whites" will be of the Drycore variety.

It would be a mistake to think the Drycore suits and the Aircore suits are equivalents....the Aircore material is more comfortable, does not have the "trash bag" feel and sound, is easier to put on, and less prone to tearing/puncture than the Drycore material.

The major advantage of the Drycore material is that it is very easy to repair, but one should not have as much need to repair the Aircore material suits as often as the Drycore under the same use conditions.

I am not seeing extensive patching on the knees of the suit in the photo you shared. What I see is a Whites Fusion Tech with the combination spandex/neoprene skin. The shiny-like material over the knee/shin areas of the suit is a rubberized coating for abrasion resistance as that is a high wear area....not sure how effective it was/is though. There does seem to be a repaired spot under the Right knee/shin area that looks like it could be aquaseal but it is hard to tell in the picture.

A replacement Whites Fusion Tech skin can be purchased for @ $300 from Northeast Scuba Supply.

The pictures don't show a lot of wear on the suit, but the pictures are not very detailed either.

If there are no issues with the Core layer of the suit, the zipper, and the seals, then $200 could be quite a bargain for drysuit....the addition of a new skin for $300 is still a good deal. If the seals are deteriorated, it wouldn't be a deal breaker, especially if one wanted to DIY replacement or have the suit upgraded the suit to Si-Tech QCS wrist ring system and Quick Neck ring system so that one could use silicone or latex seals that could be field replaced in the future should one tear a seal.

The biggest concern with the suit you pictured is whether or not the zipper is in good condition given its age. The zipper is the most expensive part of a suit to have replaced and it is a high wear item.

All that said, the suit is a "Drycore" material suit. I personally like my Aircore material suit, and would look for another if I needed to replace it. I personally would pass on a Drycore suit...unless everything was in top shape for $200.

Realize that you will also need either Fusion boots, rock boots, or neoprene booties to wear with a Fusion suit as the feet area are a "sock" made from the same fabric as the core of the suit.

-Z

 

[Zef]

LDS said this is the only suit they will not work on because of the inner core/outer skin. Evidently it make replacing seals really difficult.

Interesting because the outer skin can be completely removed from the suit, fairly quickly too, to effect repair/seal replacement.

The Drycore suits have the skin attached with velcro around the zipper area and at the ankles and wrist cuffs.

The Aircore suits have a zipper attachment for the skin at the zipper area and velcro at the ankle and wrist cuffs.

It takes less than 5 minutes to remove the skin, less than 3 if one has done it before.

-Z

 

[happy-diver]

What's going on with the neck seal dude

I would most certainly buy it, but I renovate things

 

[Results45]

I have been diving an AirCore Fusion Bullet since 2018. Here are my thoughts relative to your questions:

1. The streamlined effect of the outer skin of the suit, particularly the 1mm neoprene of the Fusion Bullet, helps slow and therefore control the air bubble in the suit. If you are new to diving in a drysuit, you will still need to learn buoyancy management and will probably add/purge air, perhaps excessively, until you are comfortable diving the suit....but I believe that the form fitting aspect of the skin significantly contributes to reducing the learning curve as one can feel the bubble roll across their shoulders or down their legs instead of the air bubble shooting across or down the suit....this helps the diver learn to control buoyancy and trim more easily than in a conventional drysuit.

2. I am not sure what modifications you would want to make. The Fusion suits are a 2-piece design....the inner "Core" layer is the actual drysuit. The outer skin/shell layer is a sacrificial layer designed to streamline the suit to the diver's body and to take abrasion and snags that would otherwise compromise the drysuit. The material and features of the outer skin is dependent on the model you purchase:
Fusion Sport: skin is made of spandex with no pockets
Fusion Tech: skin is made of a combination of spandex and 1mm neoprene with pockets on left and right thighs *
Fusion Bullet: skin is made entirely of 1mm neoprene with pockets on left and right thighs *, and has Si-Tech QCS oval wrist ring system and Si-Tech Necktite neck ring system with silicone seals installed.

*Note that the pockets are different (improved) on the Fusion Bullet compared to the Fusion Tech...many folks complained about the pockets on the Fusion Tech skin.

3. I have found my Aircore suit to be durable. As I already mentioned, the skin is designed to be a sacrificial layer to take abrasion and snags that would otherwise compromise the material of a drysuit. The skin also protects the suit from UV exposure which also has a tendency to compromise drysuit material (Trilam and neoprene). The skin is replaceable for a nominal cost compared to the cost of replacing one's suit.

The Aircore fabric was introduced after Whites was bought by Aqualung...so any Fusion suit marked "Whites" will be of the Drycore variety.

It would be a mistake to think the Drycore suits and the Aircore suits are equivalents....the Aircore material is more comfortable, does not have the "trash bag" feel and sound, is easier to put on, and less prone to tearing/puncture than the Drycore material.

The major advantage of the Drycore material is that it is very easy to repair, but one should not have as much need to repair the Aircore material suits as often as the Drycore under the same use conditions.

I am not seeing.........

Spoiler

........extensive patching on the knees of the suit in the photo you shared. What I see is a Whites Fusion Tech with the combination spandex/neoprene skin. The shiny-like material over the knee/shin areas of the suit is a rubberized coating for abrasion resistance as that is a high wear area....not sure how effective it was/is though. There does seem to be a repaired spot under the Right knee/shin area that looks like it could be aquaseal but it is hard to tell in the picture..

Spoiler

A replacement Whites Fusion Tech skin can be purchased for @ $300 from Northeast Scuba Supply.

The pictures don't show a lot of wear on the suit, but the pictures are not very detailed either.

If there are no issues with the Core layer of the suit, the zipper, and the seals, then $200 could be quite a bargain for drysuit.............

Spoiler

......the addition of a new skin for $300 is still a good deal. If the seals are deteriorated, it wouldn't be a deal breaker, especially if one wanted to DIY replacement or have the suit upgraded the suit to Si-Tech QCS wrist ring system and Quick Neck ring system so that one could use silicone or latex seals that could be field replaced in the future should one tear a seal.

The biggest concern with the suit you pictured is whether or not the zipper is in good condition given its age. The zipper is the most expensive part of a suit to have replaced and it is a high wear item.

All that said, the suit is a "Drycore" material suit. I personally like my Aircore material suit, and would look for another if I needed to replace it. I personally would pass on a Drycore suit...unless everything was in top shape for $200.

Realize that you will also need either Fusion boots, rock boots, or neoprene booties to wear with a Fusion suit as the feet area are a "sock" made from the same fabric as the core of the suit.

-Z

Hmmmmm now that you mention the potential buoyancy management advantages it does make me want to invest* in one. Are there other comparable drysuits from other brands that might do the same? I'm around 5' 9", slim/lanky, 150ish pounds, in my mid-20s, received my Open Water Certification back in 2015.

As for features I've always prized considering products with high relative reliability, versatility, comfort, and quality-of-life features in addition to generally fitting well and functioning as intended thus the Fusion Bullet with the neoprene skin and full package of pockets and neck&wrist ring system included sounds like the one I'd get of the three. Is it very similar if not identical to the all-black "military grade" tactical versions** I've seen listed at some point for a decent markup over the "civilian" versions? Does the Si-Tech neck ring mean I can pair a dry hood with a Fusion Bullet suit?

Should I consider suit brands that list the option to integrate better dry glove systems than the Si-Tech ANTARES like Kubi, Ultima DGS, Ellipse, or SANTI Smartseals? Or would finding dive shops (Mind you I live in Cascadia so there's A LOT of of them that specialize in cold open water dives) that carry suits with various dry glove systems, trying them all out, and them go with ones I enjoy using the most? Can I modify any suit from almost any drysuit brand and integrate almost any of the aforementioned dryglove systems into the suit I ultimately choose?

Are other quality-of-life suit mods like upgrading the air valves, convenience zippers, catheter pee system for me (or the equivalent "She-P" system for gals), dry-boot attachment system (if that exists), or other niche modifications to better suit specific gear configurations worth splurging on over time?

Rock boots & neoprene booties I either have on hand or can rent but those "Fusion Boots".........are they similar to other "drysuit boots" from Santi, Bare Sports, DUI, Fourth Element, Waterproof, Deep6, and so forth?


*affordably for $550? AQUA LUNG MEN'S FUSION BULLET SKIN DRY SUIT

**FUSION TACTICAL DIVE | Diving Drysuit | Aqualung

Interesting because the outer skin can be completely removed from the suit, fairly quickly too, to effect repair/seal replacement.

The Drycore suits have the skin attached with velcro around the zipper area and at the ankles and wrist cuffs.

The Aircore suits have a zipper attachment for the skin at the zipper area and velcro at the ankle and wrist cuffs.

It takes less than 5 minutes to remove the skin, less than 3 if one has done it before.

-Z

Nice to know that it's fairly repairable & modular.

 

[happy-diver]

Old Drycore thanks Zef non breathable factory cuffs very rubbish

My old man called it fiddling, that's what s**t people say, I think it is a bit more

velcro back for skin on

Even sealed up the socks with brushed on thinned urethane sealant

and I haven't dived it but where I was was hot and now it's not so I'm going learn it and try to kill it

 

[Results45]

Old Drycore thanks Zef non breathable factory cuffs very rubbish

View attachment 766144

My old man called it fiddling, that's what s**t people say, I think it is a bit more

View attachment 766145

velcro back for skin on

View attachment 766146

Even sealed up the socks with brushed on thinned urethane sealant

View attachment 766147

and I haven't dived it but where I was was hot and now it's not so I'm going learn it and try to kill it

You should come up here to the Puget Sound or just off the BC Coast and dive with me in 41°F/5°C waters!

 

[happy-diver]

Yeah I'm in the process of digging a tunnel mate



Forget the rest only the best



and he's quick and he's quiet

Yeah I narrowed, sliced the sides off my shovel so it shovels less so I can shovel more