Who "Fails" Open Water Scuba Certification and why

[lowwall]

@boulderjohn

Then you have the trifecta fatalities that meet all of your categories. The one I have always wondered about is the solo narcoleptic cave diver from the 2005 DAN Report:

This 35-year-old male was a certified cave diver with one year of cave diving experience. He was morbidly obese and had a history of narcolepsy. Diving without a buddy, the diver made a shore-entry dive into a cave system in a freshwater spring. He used a 34 percent nitrox mixture as a breathing gas, and the dive profile was planned to 108 feet (33 meters) for 20 minutes. The diver’s body was recovered in a restrictive area within the cave where the current was brisk. From the position of the body, it appeared that he had been attempting to exit the cave system. The autopsy was consistent with drowning, though there was still breathing gas available in the tank.

 

[boulderjohn]

@boulderjohn

Then you have the trifecta fatalities that meet all of your categories. The one I have always wondered about is the solo narcoleptic cave diver from the 2005 DAN Report:

This 35-year-old male was a certified cave diver with one year of cave diving experience. He was morbidly obese and had a history of narcolepsy. Diving without a buddy, the diver made a shore-entry dive into a cave system in a freshwater spring. He used a 34 percent nitrox mixture as a breathing gas, and the dive profile was planned to 108 feet (33 meters) for 20 minutes. The diver’s body was recovered in a restrictive area within the cave where the current was brisk. From the position of the body, it appeared that he had been attempting to exit the cave system. The autopsy was consistent with drowning, though there was still breathing gas available in the tank.

Here is one I was asked to write for NSS at first. I thoroughly investigated it, but NSS decided not to publish it because of political issues and the fact that the diver lived.

Two divers were descending the stairs to the spring at a popular cave site in preparation for a cave dive. They saw that two cave divers had just finished their dive and were floating near the steps as they started the gear dismantling process. Suddenly they saw that one of the divers was lying face down and not moving. His buddy had his back to him and did not see this. They shouted to the buddy, but he did not understand what they were saying. One of them jumped into the spring, turned the diver over, and pulled him to the steps. The man was extremely obese, and it took the two divers all they had to get him out of the water and start CPR. Meanwhile, someone called 911. The diver revived quickly.

When the ambulance arrived, the diver refused treatment. He said his passing out was no big deal. He had done it before, and he would do it again. He knew the reason for it, and he was not up for explaining it. He was an instructor.​

 

[ginti]

When the ambulance arrived, the diver refused treatment. He said his passing out was no big deal. He had done it before, and he would do it again. He knew the reason for it, and he was not up for explaining it.

Hiding medical conditions: this should be a reason to fail any coruse... damn, they do not even understand that they are putting other people in danger as well

 

[boulderjohn]

Hiding medical conditions: this should be a reason to fail any coruse... damn, they do not even understand that they are putting other people in danger as well

Of course, in this case the guy hiding the medical condition that could kill him in the water was an instructor, so he did not have to disclose it.

 

[ginti]

Of course, in this case the guy hiding the medical condition that could kill him in the water was an instructor, so he did not have to disclose it.

Do you mean that he was right in hiding this condition? I believe he should change career and not dive at all if he knew it could happen...

 

[boulderjohn]

Do you mean that he was right in hiding this condition? I believe he should change career and not dive at all if he knew it could happen...

Oh, I don't think it is right at all. The fact is that there is no rule I know of requiring an instructor to disclose medical conditions prior to the class. If an instructor has such a condition, he or she should resign immediately. There is no way you should be leading students knowing that you could pass out in the water at any moment.

 

[lairdb]

Oh, I don't think it is right at all. The fact is that there is no rule I know of requiring an instructor to disclose medical conditions prior to the class. If an instructor has such a condition, he or she should resign immediately. There is no way you should be leading students knowing that you could pass out in the water at any moment.

(wow, we are so far off-topic.)

@boulderjohn, was he acting as an instructor at the time? The way you related the story, I got the impression he was just flashing his brass pass.

 

[boulderjohn]

(wow, we are so far off-topic.)

@boulderjohn, was he acting as an instructor at the time? The way you related the story, I got the impression he was just flashing his brass pass.

He was not instructing at the time. The fact that he is an active instructor came from the person who knew him and reported the incident to NSS originally. He did not mention it at the time.

 

[TMHeimer]

@TMHeimer

I completely get what you are saying and I respect that you strongly believe that 10 is too young to certify but if we are going to go by the reasoning that you and some others have brought up of them not being able to rescue their dive buddy/parent/professional if something happened, then shouldn't we extend that to other recreations and maybe everyday life?

My 10 year old is not going to be able to ski me down the slope if I careen into a pine tree. He won't be able to drive me to the hospital if I have a heart attack. He won't be able to do anything if I step out in front of a bus without looking. It's my job as a parent to make sure that I am trying to make good decisions for him and I. I don't think I'll try to ski the triple black diamond when all I know how to do are the greens. I think I will try to eat a little better so maybe I don't have that heart attack. I think I will look both ways before I cross the street, and I think I will try to go diving with him in good conditions where he can grow as a diver and we can have an enjoyable time that we will both remember fondly and maybe bad **** won't happen while we are doing it.

I have no statistics to back it up but I suspect driving to the diving destination is probably a whole lot more risky than the dive itself.

Once again I do not mean this to sound combative and I respect your opinion because it is yours and yours alone to have. I just don't understand why we are sometimes trying to put a different measuring stick to scuba than what we are anything else. Doing anything without good judgement or weighing the possible downsides is mistake number one.

Thanks for your post. And for not being critical! I've been stuck on the fact that you can't breathe water as a factor separating scuba from all else. It is not our normal environment and OOA could spell panic and death. The only "sport" (I don't consider scuba a sport) worse in my mind is anything airborne -- parachuting, hang gliding. Less chance to survive an accident than entanglement underwater with plenty of air.
Anything can happen. I can have a heart attack when I go to the cabin alone for 2 weeks next week. Or the 7 weeks I'm in NYC alone with my wife in Nova Scotia.
It's just a thing with me, having taught thousands of kids age 11-12 as a Band teacher, including my two step daughters. Mature as they were, I would never have wanted to see them doing scuba at age 10. Nor myself! They were very mature for their age then.
But yes, you do make a point about kids maybe being unable to save an adult from injury/death, such as a bus crash.

 

[WeRtheOcean]

One young man had autism that was more severe than his parents alluded to and put his buddy in danger more than I was willing to allow.

Well, as an autistic person, now I am curious. Was it lack of attention to his buddy, or what?

They basically do not complete the course. Either by freaking out and not doing all four dives, or by an instructor not signing off a skill as complete.... and then the student walks away not having the time, or desire to continue.

The word fail tends to stay in the same circles with lots of judgement. Those people need to get over themselves.

The student who walks away may secretly also use the word fail. I sure would. Not that I necessarily wouldn't come back, but I would still count the first attempt as a fail.