which regs for tech

[Ontwreckdiver]

Greg

Thanks for the great info.
I currently dive a MR22 Abyss and Proton Metal octo for my single tank set up.
Is the dry sealed chamber on the 42 built into it or are you refering to the CWD kit or the CWD dry kit?

 

[Ontwreckdiver]

Ontariowrekdiver, I think you might get a better answer if you ask this question on Ontario Diving. there are a lot of very experienced Great Lakes divers on that forum that would be able to give you a good answer. I myself dive Apeks regs as do a lot of other divers up here. Is there a reason you are leaning towards Mares?
Nice picture of the Comet by the way! one of my favourite wrecks.

I am leaning towards Mares because they make good gear and I really like their regs.
I like that their second stages don't have any knobs or levers to fiddle with.
Also my LDS is a Mares dealer and there is another Mares dealer less than 2 hours away.
I try to get to Kingston at least once a summer. The Comet and Munson are my fav's. Big Jim is my cousin, so I always have a ride.

 

[Greg Barlow]

Greg

Thanks for the great info.
I currently dive a MR22 Abyss and Proton Metal octo for my single tank set up.
Is the dry sealed chamber on the 42 built into it or are you refering to the CWD kit or the CWD dry kit?

You would need the CWD Dry Kit. The other Mares regs use liquid silicone in their CWD kits.

Greg

 

[mempilot]

Greg,

I forgot to ad:

I tune my deep 1st stages to 145 psi on overhaul. I then adjust the 2nd stages to where they free flow when fully cracked open at surface ambient pressure, but stop with a finger placed in front of the mouthpiece. I then crank the knob down into a predive position. This gives me the ability to open up the flow if you will when it is needed deep.

Because I am using these regs on my bailout and deco bottles, I have also put inline shutoffs on the regulator hoses and OPRV's on the 1st stages. I open the tank valves fully, but then close the shutoff up at the 2nd stage. This allows a pressurized valve, o-ring, spg, and hose, while alleviating bleedout due to current or knocks. I have had the pressure bleed out and back fill with seawater. This has caused schrader valve malfuntions and freeflows due to corrosion. I just overhualed the 1st stages this past week and added these bits after finding premature corrision in the 1st stage. They should stay nice and clean now. Also, in the event of bailout, the Apeks are charged and ready to breath with the simple pull of the inline shutoff. I know this isn't a widely accepted method, but I see more and more deep RB divers doing this with their deep bailout regs. We also use this technique on BOVs to keep them charged but prevent freeflow of vital gas supply.

For those looking at the Mares, I have dived them and they are great regs. I service my own regs, and that is a big reason why I went with the Apeks for simplicity there. You can't go wrong with Mares for these dives you are doing.
Eric

 

[Greg Barlow]

Greg,

I forgot to ad:

I tune my deep 1st stages to 145 psi on overhaul. I then adjust the 2nd stages to where they free flow when fully cracked open at surface ambient pressure, but stop with a finger placed in front of the mouthpiece. I then crank the knob down into a predive position. This gives me the ability to open up the flow if you will when it is needed deep.

Because I am using these regs on my bailout and deco bottles, I have also put inline shutoffs on the regulator hoses and OPRV's on the 1st stages. I open the tank valves fully, but then close the shutoff up at the 2nd stage. This allows a pressurized valve, o-ring, spg, and hose, while alleviating bleedout due to current or knocks. I have had the pressure bleed out and back fill with seawater. This has caused schrader valve malfuntions and freeflows due to corrosion. I just overhualed the 1st stages this past week and added these bits after finding premature corrision in the 1st stage. They should stay nice and clean now. Also, in the event of bailout, the Apeks are charged and ready to breath with the simple pull of the inline shutoff. I know this isn't a widely accepted method, but I see more and more deep RB divers doing this with their deep bailout regs. We also use this technique on BOVs to keep them charged but prevent freeflow of vital gas supply.

For those looking at the Mares, I have dived them and they are great regs. I service my own regs, and that is a big reason why I went with the Apeks for simplicity there. You can't go wrong with Mares for these dives you are doing.
Eric

Eric,

I understand your use of the inline shutoff valves, as I have found more than one deco bottle that had lost the IP. I often use unbalanced piston first stages for the EAN50 and O2 bottles. That way if the regs do lose pressure, I feel confident that I could blow any water from the first stage without (hopefully) having a major problem. It is also easy to rebuild the first stage if water did enter the reg's body. That is more of a risky deal with diaphragm first stages, as they are not quite as forgiving when the first stage gets wet. Obviously, it isn't good for any type of reg. The inline valve is an excellent idea for protection.

I do like the Apeks regs. They are extremely well designed, and are also simple to rebuild. I, too, would adjust the second stage so that it would free flow when the knob was completely out. This also helps alleviate the deep impression in the soft seat during storage. I set mine so that it needed a half-turn to be at the point of no leakage.

Safe diving.

Greg

 

[mempilot]

I, too, would adjust the second stage so that it would free flow when the knob was completely out. This also helps alleviate the deep impression in the soft seat during storage. I set mine so that it needed a half-turn to be at the point of no leakage.

Touche!

With the shutoffs, I'll probably be rebuilding less often, or at least throwing out good parts. I figure the diaphram and o-rings should be replaced anyway on a regular basis so there isn't IP creap. The other tid bits don't seem to wear much unless exposed to saltwater. I always disassemble everything and give them an overnight bath to eat any deposits or surface corrosion that may have worked their way in. I use piston 1st stages on my rebreather O2 and DIL, but ended up using the Apeks (used to be my tech regs), on my bailout and deep deco bottles. The pistons just need to get the bath every dive vs the 'rinse' if you know what I mean.

Eric

 

[Greg Barlow]

Touche!

With the shutoffs, I'll probably be rebuilding less often, or at least throwing out good parts. I figure the diaphram and o-rings should be replaced anyway on a regular basis so there isn't IP creap. The other tid bits don't seem to wear much unless exposed to saltwater. I always disassemble everything and give them an overnight bath to eat any deposits or surface corrosion that may have worked their way in. I use piston 1st stages on my rebreather O2 and DIL, but ended up using the Apeks (used to be my tech regs), on my bailout and deep deco bottles. The pistons just need to get the bath every dive vs the 'rinse' if you know what I mean.

Eric

Way back in the 60's and 70's, Voit used two teflon rings next to the piston O-rings. The teflon rings were on the ambient side of the piston chamber. The idea was that they would "push" aside any debris that entered prior to coming in contact with the O-rings. It was an interesting concept, but I'm not certain as to how much it helped.

It is pretty tough to beat the ruggedness of an unbalanced piston first stage. If thoroughly cleaned of all debris, they generally will operate for a long time. The biggest problem is the IP falling off as the cylinder pressure decreases. I generally set my second stages to the minimum cracking effort at 3,000psi. The intermediate pressure will often fall around 10psi or so as the cylinder pressure drops to 500 or below.

Another nice thing about most unbalanced piston first stages, is that if the IP begins to creep on a trip, you can just flip the HP seat over. This, and changing out the stem and head O-rings, can usually put you back in business to finish the trip.

You might know this, but I restore vintage single and double hose regs. It is pretty amazing as to how well some of the old regs perform. I had a few restored single hose models run on an ANSTI simulator in ScubaPro's NA facility. One early Voit/Swimaster MR-12 reg nearly made Class "A" WOB at 165fsw. That is pretty darn impressive for a reg that was designed in the late 60's. It did fine until the liters per minute exceeded 15 breaths per minute. Bear in mind, that during that time an alternate air source was about as rare as hen's teeth. Buddy breathing was the accepted method for an OOA situation. The first stage's pressurized chamber was real small, but the IP would usually only fall around 10-15psi under the heaviest load. A US Divers Calypso VI (early balanced piston) was another excellent reg from that era. Its performance matched the MR-12, and actually was a bit better at 165fsw. Both of those tested regs, along with a restored ScubaPro MKVII, actually met the current EU standards.

IMHO, many regs have evolved to the point where they exceed what divers can throw at them. As you mentioned in an earlier post, it is tough to find one that isn't totally acceptable for all recreational dives. I've been diving long enough to remember when Poseidon regs were the standard by which all others were judged. I never did care for the "trap door" method of gas delivery, but they sure did boost your confidence when you were deep.

Greg

 

[mempilot]

If parts weren't an issue, I'd probably take a look at Poseiden. They have a BOV regulator that fits most RB's. Here's a question for you: Dive Rite now has a regulator that looks like a Poseiden. Is it coincidence, no copyright/patent, or are they now in business together on distribution in the US?

 

[Greg Barlow]

If parts weren't an issue, I'd probably take a look at Poseiden. They have a BOV regulator that fits most RB's. Here's a question for you: Dive Rite now has a regulator that looks like a Poseiden. Is it coincidence, no copyright/patent, or are they now in business together on distribution in the US?

It is my understanding that they are in business together. I have no official word on that, but I do know that Dell Motes and Lamar Hires have always been big fans of the Poseidon line.

Greg

 

[SlowRain]

If parts weren't an issue, I'd probably take a look at Poseiden. They have a BOV regulator that fits most RB's. Here's a question for you: Dive Rite now has a regulator that looks like a Poseiden. Is it coincidence, no copyright/patent, or are they now in business together on distribution in the US?

When I was in my teaching days, the shop I taught out of was a Posiden dealer, mainly because the owner also was a regional sales rep for them. My personal regulators were Scuba Pro, but when running classes I would dive the shop brand(s) and I REALLY liked Posiden regulators. I would have no problem in any way, shape or form owning them now other than the parts are expensive and finding a place to service them is near on to impossible. I thought they were great regs.