Where Do You Mount Your Trilobite?

[kinoons]

Noboby has to follow my advice, but if you're on land practicing scuba-skills or verifying equipment comfort/fit/etc, I highly recommend doing the skill or finding the item with your eyes closed.

• If you can do a skill, or find an item (regulator, cutting device, d-ring, etc) by feel easily, doing the same in the water will be that much quicker and more efficient.
• Practicing skills on land with your eyes open, you'll have a tendency to "cheat" even if you don't notice you're cheating. (...speaking from experience, I caught myself "cheating" by closing my eyes and noticing the same skill was more difficult)
• Everything that's easy on land is more complicated when covered in scuba-gear, gloves, vision-restricting mask, refraction, floating, currents, waves, limited vis, narced, backplate, etc. Almost nobody actually puts on full scuba-gear when practicing on land.
• If there's some kind of incident or emergency, such as entanglement, regulator-leak, zero-vis, etc .... not relying on your vision will make you that much more capable.
• I had an incident with a regulator hose coming loose and lots of bubbles and in that confusion I couldn't find my octo. I'm not the only one who has had that or a similar incident.

Lastly, I personally do dive in near-zero visibility quite often so it's extra useful for me personally, but I still recommend the above to others.

And of course with anything pointy, like my knife, I really take my time when sheathing it. The line-cutters you don't have to be as careful.

I certianly understand practicing as such, and advocating for it isn’t bad at all. I agree with the ability to find and implement your cutting device via muscle memory. It’s the replacement without looking that I’m iffy about.

As you say, a cutter is much less pointy than a knife, but once the emergency is over, taking the time to slowly, cautiously, and deliberately replace your cutting device back into the holster, visually ensuring it is correct will save injury and lost equipment.

 

[SlugLife]

I certianly understand practicing as such, and advocating for it isn’t bad at all. I agree with the ability to find and implement your cutting device via muscle memory. It’s the replacement without looking that I’m iffy about.

As you say, a cutter is much less pointy than a knife, but once the emergency is over, taking the time to slowly, cautiously, and deliberately replace your cutting device back into the holster, visually ensuring it is correct will save injury and lost equipment.

Sure, one should take their time, and when possible visually confirm, especially when dealing with any exposed sharp or pointy object. (I'd also suggest not using pointy objects and exposed blades when dealing with very poor vis)

However, I feel your response seems to be debating my comment ... while completely missing the point. You seem to think I'm telling people they're not allowed to use their vision underwater or something? Not at all, I'm talking about practice, equipment setup, skills, etc. You're more than allowed to use your vision, but you can really level up your scuba-game if you don't need it.

Being able to find, use, manipulate, etc equipment without looking is a very useful skill for everything scuba. I didn't realize the importance for a LONG time myself, but since I've been practicing scuba-skills without looking, it's made a MASSIVE difference in:

• Being able to very quickly and easily find/use/manipulate/stow any of my equipment.
• Reduce task-loading, time, and frustration to find/etc any item. This also makes scuba more fun and easier in general.
• Discover and resolve issues with equipment (i.e. a cutting device, d-ring, or regulator in an awkward to reach place)
• Improved safety as mentioned in my previous post.
• Turn scuba into a more seamless and "naturally" skilled experience. Consider it similar to the idea of going from staring at your keyboard and finger-typing, versus someone who can type quickly and easily without looking.

 

[Boarderguy]

I certianly understand practicing as such, and advocating for it isn’t bad at all. I agree with the ability to find and implement your cutting device via muscle memory. It’s the replacement without looking that I’m iffy about.

As you say, a cutter is much less pointy than a knife, but once the emergency is over, taking the time to slowly, cautiously, and deliberately replace your cutting device back into the holster, visually ensuring it is correct will save injury and lost equipment.

Blindly finding your cutting device while focusing on the hazard is key to dealing with it safely. Once the hazard has been mitigated then put the device away as you wish. If conditions allow then use your sight. If you're in zero viz then it must be safely done by feel/muscle memory.

 

[Thunder Struck]

Sure, one should take their time, and when possible visually confirm, especially when dealing with any exposed sharp or pointy object. (I'd also suggest not using pointy objects and exposed blades when dealing with very poor vis)

However, I feel your response seems to be debating my comment ... while completely missing the point. You seem to think I'm telling people they're not allowed to use their vision underwater or something? Not at all, I'm talking about practice, equipment setup, skills, etc. You're more than allowed to use your vision, but you can really level up your scuba-game if you don't need it.

Being able to find, use, manipulate, etc equipment without looking is a very useful skill for everything scuba. I didn't realize the importance for a LONG time myself, but since I've been practicing scuba-skills without looking, it's made a MASSIVE difference in:

• Being able to very quickly and easily find/use/manipulate/stow any of my equipment.
• Reduce task-loading, time, and frustration to find/etc any item. This also makes scuba more fun and easier in general.
• Discover and resolve issues with equipment (i.e. a cutting device, d-ring, or regulator in an awkward to reach place)
• Improved safety as mentioned in my previous post.
• Turn scuba into a more seamless and "naturally" skilled experience. Consider it similar to the idea of going from staring at your keyboard and finger-typing, versus someone who can type quickly and easily without looking.

In the Army we had a simple saying for this: “Train hard, fight easy.”

 

[kinoons]

Sure, one should take their time, and when possible visually confirm, especially when dealing with any exposed sharp or pointy object. (I'd also suggest not using pointy objects and exposed blades when dealing with very poor vis)

However, I feel your response seems to be debating my comment ... while completely missing the point. You seem to think I'm telling people they're not allowed to use their vision underwater or something? Not at all, I'm talking about practice, equipment setup, skills, etc. You're more than allowed to use your vision, but you can really level up your scuba-game if you don't need it.

Being able to find, use, manipulate, etc equipment without looking is a very useful skill for everything scuba. I didn't realize the importance for a LONG time myself, but since I've been practicing scuba-skills without looking, it's made a MASSIVE difference in:

• Being able to very quickly and easily find/use/manipulate/stow any of my equipment.
• Reduce task-loading, time, and frustration to find/etc any item. This also makes scuba more fun and easier in general.
• Discover and resolve issues with equipment (i.e. a cutting device, d-ring, or regulator in an awkward to reach place)
• Improved safety as mentioned in my previous post.
• Turn scuba into a more seamless and "naturally" skilled experience. Consider it similar to the idea of going from staring at your keyboard and finger-typing, versus someone who can type quickly and easily without looking.

I agree with the first part of your premise. Getting to and using an object without having to look is a very imporntant skill.

Where we disagree is about returning an object to its storage place without needing to look. I acknowledge you’re not excluding the possibility of looking if you can do so. In the style of diving I do low vis and now vis is almost entirely excluded. As such I won’t train resheathing my knife by touch alone. That’s a good way to get injured, lose a knife, or cut my equipment.

OTOH if you’re likely to dive in low to no vis then I understand the risk is balanced with the requirements of the situation.

 

[SlugLife]

In the Army we had a simple saying for this: “Train hard, fight easy.”

Exactly! Training is also the "equipment" you always have on you, doesn't weigh anything, and cannot be taken away.

I'm not a military guy, but in listening to people with military experience, I've seen and heard a lot of parallels. For example (I'm paraphrasing), "Many activities like shooting targets might seem easy, but once you're covered in mud, under fire, cold, and carrying 50lbs+ of kit for miles ... even the simplest things can become quite difficult." Thankfully, scuba isn't quite that extreme, but there are certainly some parallels.

Something I borrowed from the gun-world is the concept of a flared magwell .... except instead, it's a flared sheath. It's a minor change, that just makes inserting my shears blindly that much easier.

I agree with the first part of your premise. Getting to and using an object without having to look is a very imporntant skill.

Where we disagree is about returning an object to its storage place without needing to look. I acknowledge you’re not excluding the possibility of looking if you can do so. In the style of diving I do low vis and now vis is almost entirely excluded. As such I won’t train resheathing my knife by touch alone. That’s a good way to get injured, lose a knife, or cut my equipment.

OTOH if you’re likely to dive in low to no vis then I understand the risk is balanced with the requirements of the situation.

I don't want to mix the two topics, so I'll address this topic seperately. There are two concerns I see here:

1. Stabbing/cutting yourself or your equipment.
2. Losing items.

1) For this stabbing/cutting issue, there are solutions.

1a) Line cutters are very popular in scuba, because it's really difficult to accidentally cut something unintended. They have no pointy-end or exposed blade. I personally prefer ones which have a serrated edge and can open up, like this one, because they can handle ropes, and small branches if absolutely needed. (Not ideal for cleanup work, lots of ropes, etc .... but it'll do in an emergency and I've cut several ropes with one).

1b) Shears. Trauma shears specifically are quite popular. You can get them for around 2 for $12, sometimes cheaper. Or you can get a high-quality one like this. They have FAR more cutting power than you might expect, are compact, lightweight, and no exposed pointing ends or blades (when closed). If you do heavy-duty work often, Utility shears are also an option with insane cutting power, but are bulky and finding a sheath is very hard (or follow my DIY)

1c) Knives are usually reserved for when your line-cutter or trauma-shears just isn't "cutting it" (pun intended). You're not accidentally stabbing/cutting/etc because you're very rarely ever using the knife, and when you do you're ultra-careful when putting it back. I'd still say it's good to be able to insert a knife blind, because an entanglement can easily stir up silt or restrict mobility. Though obviously, I'd suggest in the moment visually confirming if you're able to, and really taking your time. If it's a real emergency and you don't have time to safely stow it, just drop the knife.

2) Losing items. There are many solutions here, some of which depend on the item type. For a knife or shears, I usually (a) create a loop of paracord, large enough to fit my wrist through. That way I can temporarily "drop" (dangle) the tool while using it, without actually losing the tool. Next, (b) putting a bolt-snap on the loop, which is mostly for clipping the tool on a d-ring every time it's stored. It can also be used to temporarily clip-off to free up my hands, but beware hazards of a dangling cutting-device.

I've tried various retractors, springy things, magnets, etc and am not a fan.

For line-cutters, I find I don't need any lanyard or clip. Having my finger through the hole is generally enough, and I can still mostly use my hand while holding the cutter. When re-inserting, it's a 2-step process of a) insert, and b) secure velcro. When the Velcro is secure, that thing isn't going to be dropped or go anywhere.