When would you ditch a buddies weights?

[scubababe]

There certainly are some dangerous buddies out there. Perhaps all the divers who are going to take off their unconscious buddy's weights underwater should go do a RESCUE divers course.

I would remove weights on the surface. I can think of many situations where this is applicable.

I cannot speak about flooded dry suits as I haven't used one. I have heard about amazing downcurrents at walls where divers are literally sucked down great depths and the only thing to do is inflate the BCD, swim up and dump all weights. Of course this is a problem if and when you get out of the downcurrent. So I could see this as one reason for dumping a buddy's weights.

Other than that I would think that given one of the buddies has air, there are other options.

Of course we could all make up reasons ... hmmm bouyant ascent so it is at depth, both divers out of air ... lets get out our imaginations ... ok ... the big bad boogie diver came and cut our hoses and is attacking us, we don't have any air and no more divers around us (the big bad boogie diver isn't going to help us), buddy is incapacitated - we need to do a bouyant ascent. Dump their weights and hang on for a moderated bouyant ascent or dump both sets of weights. OR We are being attacked by sharks, the buddy has been bitten or we want them to be. Dump their weights and while they are distracting the shark we can sneak up to the boat ... and added bonus ... we don't need to dive to recover the body.

 

[Big-t-2538]

scubababe once bubbled...
There certainly are some dangerous buddies out there. Perhaps all the divers who are going to take off their unconscious buddy's weights underwater should go do a RESCUE divers course.

I would remove weights on the surface. I can think of many situations where this is applicable.

Maybe I should have been more specific. If for some reason my buddy goes unconscious, I know he has air in his tank, and I know what the pressure is. I know I wouldn't drop his belt for the simple reason that WE need to get to the surface SAFELY and go from there. Once we got there, I would consider dropping it pending the circumstances and/or lack of bouyancy.

However, for my rescue class, we were trained to drop the belt upon discovery of the victim if they were unconscious and not breathing........not to dis-credit instructors out there, but that was what I was taught...theory being, if you are searching for an unconscious diver...they're most likely already dead. We were made well aware of controlling our ascents during any rescue and know not to create any additional victims during a rescue (i.e. you should let go if you're ascending too fast, make sure there are no entanglements before rescuing, etc.). I am going to have to go back and look at my manual for specifically what the protocol is, but we were trained to drop the belts.

Using my own good judgement, I agree with Mike and controlling the ascent all together is a wonderful idea. It definetly seems to be a much safer scenario. I will definetly sit down with some people I know and weigh the pros/cons for not dropping the belt. If we end up changing for the better, then we have all learned something, if we end up not changing, we have our reasons, and we will still have learned through discussion.

 

[scubababe]

It is very interesting that you were taught to drop the weights when you find an unconscious diver underwater. This is very different from the current PADI Rescue diver course.

In your course what do you do after surfacing your unconscious diver whose weights you dropped? Do you do mouth to mouth on the surface while swimming them to shore/boat?

 

[Genesis]

However, for my rescue class, we were trained to drop the belt upon discovery of the victim if they were unconscious and not breathing........not to dis-credit instructors out there, but that was what I was taught...theory being, if you are searching for an unconscious diver...they're most likely already dead.

When I take Rescue (which I have every intention of doing) this will end up being a huge debate with me if I am told this.

I can think of NO reason to dump weights at depth unless there is absolutely no other solution to negative buoyancy AND no floor at a rational depth.

If a diver is unconscious and not breathing, and I assume he is dead, ditching his weights will very likely insure that the assumption is correct.

That sucks.

Unless there is some reason that would imperil my own safety that makes a normal ascent using my BC and breathing for buoyancy unwise, while holding onto the unconscious and unresponsive diver, I can't imagine why I would ditch the other diver's weights at depth.

After all, if it is indeed a body recovery (the diver is dead) then how fast I bring him up is irrelavent. I can't hurt him any more than he is already hurt.

If, however, he is NOT dead and I ditch from depth, I am almost certainly going to cause severe barotrauma at minimum, and since the diver is already severely compromised in terms of his status, I am almost certainly condemning him to die by taking that step.

Now the other side of this argument is that if he is not breathing and is unconcsious then he will die in 3-4 minutes ANYWAY. Ok, I'll give you that; I'm almost certainly in the "heroics" category here.

But let's look at some of the possibilities here, assuming you did not see what caused the incident (e.g. you find him on the bottom, apparently unconcsious and not breathing):

1. He could have toxed. If the regulator is in his mouth and he did not aspirate water, toxing, on its own, is not going to kill him. If I ditch his weight belt while he's catatonic though I WILL likely kill him! And, if he toxed and is in the tonic state, he may not resume respiration for 30 seconds to a minute or so - which will seem like an HOUR down there when you find the guy! The only bad news is that if he toxed due to an overrich Nitrox mixture he may tox AGAIN, since he's still gonna be breathing it. Not good, but you can't take him up until he starts breathing without 'sploding his lungs....

2. He may have had a cardiac or ischemic (stroke) event. In this case almost nothing you can do is going to be material to the outcome. He has zero odds though if you explode his lungs to add to it, and/or give him a CAGE to go with the other problems.

3. He's had some kind of other, non-diving-related problem, such as a hypoglycemic event (diabetes) or something similar. These are very bad, but there's not much you can do for him at 100', and frankly, unless you can figure out WHAT is going on all you can really do is maintain the primary rescue priorities (airway, ventilation and circulation) if you can get him to the surface. Causing an embolism won't help you with those goals if/when he gets there.

Of the possible scenarios, most are pretty hopeless. But a tox event is not, and it IS possible, even if the tank is MARKED "Air" (you don't KNOW what's in there, even if it has a contents label!)

If the regulator is OUT of his mouth then I would agree that things change, as the odds of water being in the airway are very high, and he may have aspirated water already. In either of those cases the guy's probably dead, or will be shortly, no matter what you do.

So where's the logic in ditching an unconscious diver's weight if you find him or her at depth? How did the instructor justify that one?

 

[MikeFerrara]

Big-t-2538,
I sure would like to know who is teaching that. I wouldn't expect you to give names on an open forum but if it showed up in a magic PM or something...

Mike

 

[scubababe]

Genesis I do agree with your evaluation. Further more, I can only see it as being regarded with a 'body recovery' type mentality, because if you dumped your buddy's weights and then ascended normally, then who would be there to provide EAR if required. You may even temporarily lose the buddy on the surface, so any benefit of the quick surfacing (not that I think there would be any benefit) would be outweighed by the delay in providing first aid.

 

[MikeFerrara]

If there was a current you might never find them again.

 

[scubababe]

So Mike, other than some amazing downcurrent possibility, can you think of any reason to dump someone's weights underwater?

 

[Groundhog246]

At depth WAS my thinking and I'm happy to see that most, if not all, the posts mirror my own thinking. Almost the only reason to ditch weights at depth would be a body recovery and if doing so, you might want to hook on a reel.
Never thought of dropping weights on the surface, although I could see helping a buddy get his belt off to make boarding a vessel easier.

Any thoughts on THAT? Did 2 dives last summer, off the back of my sailboat. Getting back aboard was a little challenging. Climb up ladder in full gear? Remove weight integrated BC, climb up ladder and lift BC into the cockpit, 2 feet above the water? Remove weights in the water and sling them up 2 feet into the cockpit (while praying it doesn't slip and descend), still leaving the BC/no BC up the ladder question?
After getting back aboard, give strong consideration to trading for a power boat with a swim platform.
Next time, we plan on rigging a milk crate on a line over the side to place the weights in, probably with a block and tackle to ease bringing aboard. Might buy a better ladder too.

Any ideas/input would be welcomed.

Kent

 

[CuriousMe]

scubababe once bubbled...
<snip> .
We are being attacked by sharks, the buddy has been bitten or we want them to be. Dump their weights and while they are distracting the shark we can sneak up to the boat ... and added bonus ... we don't need to dive to recover the body.

Note to self....never dive in shark infested waters with scubababe


Peace,
Cathie