When would you ditch a buddies weights?

[devilfish]

When bringing up and unconcious diver from the bottom, the rescuers ascent rate safety is #1.
An unconcious diver on the bottom will be negative and therefore the weight belt on the victim needs to be removed. The victim will be negative because of any gas in the lungs will be compressed without inhalation of ambient pressure gas.
As the rescuer makes a controlled ascent and holding on to the victim, somewhere in the 15-20 ft water column the victim will become buoyant, especially with a wet suit. At that point the rescuer should let go of the victim and let the fictim float up to the surface while the rescuer completes a safe ascent. A truly unconcious diver can NOT embolize. Whatever gas will expand in the lungs will vent out automatically unless there is a physical obstruction in the air way, which is not likely.
Those that did bring up an unconcious diver know that the victim will be negative on the bottom. Drop the wieghtbelt of the victim on the bottom.

 

[Big-t-2538]

devilfish once bubbled...
When bringing up and unconcious diver from the bottom, the rescuers ascent rate safety is #1.
An unconcious diver on the bottom will be negative and therefore the weight belt on the victim needs to be removed. The victim will be negative because of any gas in the lungs will be compressed without inhalation of ambient pressure gas. At that point the rescuer should let go of the victim and let the fictim float up to the surface while the rescuer completes a safe ascent. A truly unconcious diver can NOT embolize. Whatever gas will expand in the lungs will vent out automatically unless there is a physical obstruction in the air way, which is not likely.

Could you please expand on how they cannot embolize. I'm interested in knowing why they can't

 

[devilfish]

Big-t-2538 once bubbled...


Could you please expand on how they cannot embolize. I'm interested in knowing why they can't

An unconcious body is totally relaxed and therefore the airway is open. Expanding gas in the lungs will just vent out automatically.

 

[Genesis]

The epiglottis, which is what closes off the airway when one has a spasm, is under both unconscious and conscious control.

It is entirely possible for a diver to have a locked shut airway and be unconscious. It was specifically stated in my Nitrox class that a diver who has toxed, but who did not spit out the reg, MUST NOT be taken up from the depth they are at - not even by so much as a few feet - until they regain consciousness. It was also cited that a diver who toxed and DID spit out the reg might not have aspirated much water for the same reason (their airway was closed off and thus they could not inhale much of the sea) - but there is no way to know whether they did or did not.

The reason cited is that the convulsions lock the muscles of the body, including the epiglottis, closed - and as such if you ascend the risk of an embolism is extremely high.

You are correct in that if a person falls unconscious without a predicate such as a convulsion their muscle tone will be lost and thus there is a low (but not zero) risk of an embolism in that instance. Why not zero? Because the airway can be closed as a consequence of head and neck position (not just the muscles inside!) and the normal pressure differential in the lungs is a fraction of a psi. As such even without muscular closure of the airway, something as simple as an obstruction as a consequence of head and neck position could cause an embolism.

The problem is that if you come across an unconscious diver you have no idea why they fell unconscious, and even if it happens right in front of you it is entirely possible that you won't correctly recognize the cause.

An unconscious person will be negative (assuming they were neutral previously) as they will have no little or tidal volume in their lungs. However, the tidal lung buoyancy shift is only a few pounds - not enough to require dumping someone's belt to be able to EASILY raise them in a controlled ascent.

 

[Lawman]

:doctor: Shouldn't this be shifted over to Dr. Deco or
dive medicine? It's an important topic and we should
ask the docs.

 

[MikeFerrara]

Even if the airway is open lung overexpansion is possible during a rapid ascent.
Where are you people learning this drop the weights garbage? Didn't you practice controled bouyant ascents in your rescue class. Didn't you practice surfacing an unconcious diver?

 

[tinman]

Genesis once bubbled...
I too wear my weight belt under my crotch strap.

That has already kept me from losing it once at 100', which would have been VERY un-funny.[/i][/size]

So do I, for the same reason.

I disagree with dropping a diver's ballast in an unconscious/unresponsive rescue situation unless there is no other alternative, and you are willing to accept that by doing so, if the diver is not already severely injured (e.g. he has toxed) you WILL likely injure or even kill him by doing so.

Of course you can't kill the dead, but if he's already dead then there is also no advantage to be gained from a buoyant ascent, providing you can stay with the body.

Agreed. Other alternatives would include, putting air into the victim's BC or Drysuit or into your own (remembering that you're carrying an anchor till the victim's neutral in the water column so don't drop your anchor!). Checking if partial weight removal is possible, eg. ankle weights, pocket weights, trim weights, light cannister, etc. Any other alternatives?

I don't want to become a victim and I can not predict my own body's reaction to missed deco obligations.

 

[MikeFerrara]

Everyone should take a rescue class.

One of the things you should have a chance to do during the rescue class is to try different methods with divers using different equipment. It sounds like many of you have never practiced this. If you don't practice and experiment with doing things like this your performance in a real situation will stink. At best you will be of no help to anyone at worst you will finish off the victem and hurt yourself.

 

[Wreck/Tec]

Remember, if you're using a rear bladder BC and you ditch weight at the surface, without any other floatation device your face goes foreward into the water. Now you have another problem! Keep the weight until your options are exhausted... If you send an individual up with out you, and you violate safety stops and or deco to retrieve him, you're at risk now and may be of no good to anyone...A tough call to be sure..Think of your safety as well.

 

[Lawman]

WE NEED A DOC TO WEIGH IN ON THIS DISCUSSION! UP FAST, OR UP SLOW? WHATS THE GREATEST DANGER???:doctor: